Wrong to Criticize

[_Runtu]

Hypothetically if the demands of my leaders started seriously conflicting with my conscience I'd hold a long consultation with God about the matter.

That's exactly how I ended up leaving the church.

[_The Nehor]

They are accountable to God. How he chooses to hold them accountable is his business. I can't be bothered.

Criticism of leaders does not imply that the leaders are always right. It is an understanding that it is not your duty to correct it.

I think some see authoritarianism where there is little or none. How much influence and power does the Bishop have over my life? Not a lot. Stake President and up the chain? Ditto.

There was a book written some time ago where the author wondered whether disagreeing with the GA's of the Church was apostasy. He asked a friend of his (an Apostle) if an honest disagreement with them was apostasy. He took it to the 12 and they discussed and said that no, it was not as long as it was not in the form of a 'loyal opposition' or factioning the Church. I am commanded not to criticize my Church Leaders and God has reiterated that command to me directly. I have no right to make it difficult for them to do their job by demeaning either their office or them.

GBH, or one of the Bretheren, has come out and said something along the lines of "there is no such thing as loyal opposition." If somebody is up to it, they can double check this.

It is comments like this by Nehor that lead to critics to refer to believers as "sheep."

What is it about believers that make them want to submit to unaccountable authoritarians? I just don't get it.

Nehor, how are you different from the followers of Heaven's Gate?

As a purely hypothetical exercise, to what lengths are you prepared to go to withhold criticism from Mormon authority figures? What would they have to do to get you to criticize them and demand some kind of earthly accountbility?

Hypothetically if the demands of my leaders started seriously conflicting with my conscience I'd hold a long consultation with God about the matter. If prayer did not change my mind I would speak with the leader privately on the matter. If there was still no reconciliation I would quietly not follow them (going less-active if necessary). To get earthly accountability they would have to break the law in some way. If the Bishop raped my sister or the Stake President stole my car I would demand earthly accountability.

Does mass murder (MMM) and/or covering up mass murder count as breaking the law?

Yes and I believe Lee was executed for it.

[_moksha]

Remember the good old days:

"We are not so much concerned with whether your thoughts are orthodox or heterodox as we are that you shall have thoughts." (Hugh B. Brown)

[_harmony]

Remember the good old days:

"We are not so much concerned with whether your thoughts are orthodox or heterodox as we are that you shall have thoughts." (Hugh B. Brown)

HBB would probably be ex'ed in the current hostile-to-thought environment.

[_Polygamy Porter]

They are accountable to God. How he chooses to hold them accountable is his business. I can't be bothered.

Criticism of leaders does not imply that the leaders are always right. It is an understanding that it is not your duty to correct it.

I think some see authoritarianism where there is little or none. How much influence and power does the Bishop have over my life? Not a lot. Stake President and up the chain? Ditto.

There was a book written some time ago where the author wondered whether disagreeing with the GA's of the Church was apostasy. He asked a friend of his (an Apostle) if an honest disagreement with them was apostasy. He took it to the 12 and they discussed and said that no, it was not as long as it was not in the form of a 'loyal opposition' or factioning the Church. I am commanded not to criticize my Church Leaders and God has reiterated that command to me directly. I have no right to make it difficult for them to do their job by demeaning either their office or them.

GBH, or one of the Bretheren, has come out and said something along the lines of "there is no such thing as loyal opposition." If somebody is up to it, they can double check this.

It is comments like this by Nehor that lead to critics to refer to believers as "sheep."

What is it about believers that make them want to submit to unaccountable authoritarians? I just don't get it.

Nehor, how are you different from the followers of Heaven's Gate?

As a purely hypothetical exercise, to what lengths are you prepared to go to withhold criticism from Mormon authority figures? What would they have to do to get you to criticize them and demand some kind of earthly accountbility?

Hypothetically if the demands of my leaders started seriously conflicting with my conscience I'd hold a long consultation with God about the matter. If prayer did not change my mind I would speak with the leader privately on the matter. If there was still no reconciliation I would quietly not follow them (going less-active if necessary). To get earthly accountability they would have to break the law in some way. If the Bishop raped my sister or the Stake President stole my car I would demand earthly accountability.

Does mass murder (MMM) and/or covering up mass murder count as breaking the law?

Yes and I believe Lee was executed for it.

Paaallleeeeaaazzzeee. Lets not start on that. We all know he was the whipping boy. In the end justice was served on the theocratic madman at the helm.

[_Polygamy Porter]

They are accountable to God. How he chooses to hold them accountable is his business.

Stop with the blind obedience drivel or I will request that you change your avatar to Eeyore. Heh, it does rhyme with Nehore...

[_The Nehor]

They are accountable to God. How he chooses to hold them accountable is his business.

Stop with the blind obedience drivel or I will request that you change your avatar to Eeyore. Heh, it does rhyme with Nehore...

Very clever, did you come up with that one all by yourself?

[_Polygamy Porter]

They are accountable to God. How he chooses to hold them accountable is his business.

Stop with the blind obedience drivel or I will request that you change your avatar to Eeyore. Heh, it does rhyme with Nehore...

Very clever, did you come up with that one all by yourself?

*Eeyore voice* "awwwwww shucks......"

[_The Nehor]

They are accountable to God. How he chooses to hold them accountable is his business.

Stop with the blind obedience drivel or I will request that you change your avatar to Eeyore. Heh, it does rhyme with Nehore...

Very clever, did you come up with that one all by yourself?

*Eeyore voice* "awwwwww shucks......"

So does that mean Eeyore helped?

[_Blixa]

Thanks for the Hugh B. Brown quote, Moksha. Its hard to believe he and Dallin are even members of the same club. Out of curiousity, do you have a date for that? Also from whence the quotation came?