Tithing.... How do you calculate what you owe

[_mocnarf]

I had an interesting discussion with and LDS friend about how he determines what his tithing amount should be. I am wondering if this is how other LDS calculate it. Basicly he said he pays 10% of his net increase.

Here's an example sistuation:
A man is self employed, his gross sales/earnings for the year are: $500,000.00
His expenses for the year are: $480,000.00
included in his expense are:
all interest payments both directly related to his
work and home mortgage & credit cards
all taxes owed to government, including auto license for
both his work vehicle and his wifes vehicle.
many miscelanious expenses, such as childcare.

Bottom line is that he feels his net increase for the year is: $20,000.00

So he calculates his fair tithe amount to be $2,000.00

Is this how most LDS would calculate their tithe?

[_Who Knows]

I think most people don't back out the personal stuff (like personal credit card, mortgage, vehicle, etc.). Which would probably leave him with $100k, which makes more sense.

[_mocnarf]

How about if your retired and are now living off your savings. And your increase to your estate is now in the negative. Does this mean you no longer have a tithing obligation?

[_moksha]

Doesn't paying 10% of gross, mean you are paying on an amount that you do not actually have? By not actually having it, how can it be an increase? If it is based on a potentiality, have you even considered that there for the Grace of God, you could either be a potential billionaire or a pauper? If a billionaire, those who like to overdo things better pony up big time.

[_Who Knows]

Doesn't paying 10% of gross, mean you are paying on an amount that you do not actually have? By not actually having it, how can it be an increase? If it is based on a potentiality, have you even considered that there for the Grace of God, you could either be a potential billionaire or a pauper? If a billionaire, those who like to overdo things better pony up big time.

Well, technically, it's your money first. But then you have to pay some to the government - kind of like any other 'bill' that you pay.

[_moksha]

Doesn't paying 10% of gross, mean you are paying on an amount that you do not actually have? By not actually having it, how can it be an increase? If it is based on a potentiality, have you even considered that there for the Grace of God, you could either be a potential billionaire or a pauper? If a billionaire, those who like to overdo things better pony up big time.

Well, technically, it's your money first. But then you have to pay some to the government - kind of like any other 'bill' that you pay.

I don't understand this technical. The gross is not yours to access. You are obligated to pay the earnings deduction, social security, insurance and other deductions. What appears on your paycheck, that you can take to the bank, is your increase. Let me pose this question: Do you suppose if the Church had to pay taxes, that they would gladly pay on their full revenue before their obligated business expenses such a payroll? Of course the Government would never ask such a thing, but do you suppose an appeal to heightened patriotism and the blessings of liberty would help?

[_Gazelam]

Who Knows is correct. You take the Full Amount. Then you render unto Caeser what is Caeser's, and unto God what is God's. Then you do what you want with the rest.

[_Inconceivable]

Gross is a term that cannot describe profit or increase. I've heard it used for years by those that have little understanding of basic accounting.

It's net increase that is the proper term. The definition of how much it really is, is in direct proportion to how well you live with guilt. My calculation of 10% was on the high side because I truly thought it was the Lord's.

Now I feel I've been robbed by unjust and even false stewards. I want it back with interest so I can bless those that really need it.

I feel like such an idiot paying with my blood to build lavish temples and scholarships for some other person's education when there were so many needy that I could have blessed myself.

shame on the Mormon heirarchy.

[_Who Knows]

I don't understand this technical. The gross is not yours to access. You are obligated to pay the earnings deduction, social security, insurance and other deductions. What appears on your paycheck, that you can take to the bank, is your increase.

'what you can take to the bank' isn't really the measure. What if you have your mortgage withdrawn automatically? What about a car payment? Maybe some savings too? Even if it's in your bank account, some HAS to come out for bills - electricity, gas, water, etc.

What about a sole proprietor? All his money goes directly to his bank account. But then he takes some out to pay his tax bills. Does the money that he takes to the bank (remember - pre taxes, business bills, etc.) qualify as his increase?

Let me pose this question: Do you suppose if the Church had to pay taxes, that they would gladly pay on their full revenue before their obligated business expenses such a payroll? Of course the Government would never ask such a thing, but do you suppose an appeal to heightened patriotism and the blessings of liberty would help?

You can't really compare businesses to personal income. They're 2 totally separate issues.

[_Jason Bourne]

I had an interesting discussion with and LDS friend about how he determines what his tithing amount should be. I am wondering if this is how other LDS calculate it. Basicly he said he pays 10% of his net increase.

Here's an example sistuation:
A man is self employed, his gross sales/earnings for the year are: $500,000.00
His expenses for the year are: $480,000.00
included in his expense are:
all interest payments both directly related to his
work and home mortgage & credit cards
all taxes owed to government, including auto license for
both his work vehicle and his wifes vehicle.
many miscelanious expenses, such as childcare.

Bottom line is that he feels his net increase for the year is: $20,000.00

So he calculates his fair tithe amount to be $2,000.00

Is this how most LDS would calculate their tithe?

No. I think few do it this way. Most do not deduct living expenses. Some may deduct taxes, but most pay on gross wages. Most business owners pay on net profits from the business but again, do not deduct personal living.

The general handbook of instructions says increase is defined as income and that nobody is justified in giving any other definition.