near death experiences and Mormonism....

[_Inconceivable]

..I have no doubt there is an afterlife. I could best describe it as good. However, though there may be parallels, I am quite doubtful that it is the cartoon painted by Mormon doctrine.

We have a cartoon about it? Man, I wanna see that :)

Sure Nehor, I'll give it a shot:

bla blaa circles bla...

Anyway, back to that one slash and two circles that we're talking about.

All that shows is divisions among the dead. How does that relate to NDE's at all?

Here is some information concerning Mormon teaching concerning the "death" experience:

11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.
12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.
13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.
14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection.
15 Now, there are some that have understood that this state of happiness and this state of misery of the soul, before the resurrection, was a first resurrection. Yea, I admit it may be termed a resurrection, the raising of the spirit or the soul and their consignation to happiness or misery, according to the words which have been spoken.

(Book of Mormon | Alma 40:11 - 15)

Here is other cannonized stuff that has little meaning to me:

46 And it shall come to pass that those that die in me shall not taste of death, for it shall be sweet unto them;
47 And they that die not in me, wo unto them, for their death is bitter.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 42:46 - 47)

This is the slash and 3 circles I'm basically talking about. It's pretty dry, but acceptable and even logical for someone that believes they must be the chosen ones on the "inside"

It would derail a fine topic to get into a debate over what constitutes a "wicked" human, who is accountable, a sinner or transgressor. I just get the impression that beautiful people like the Mother Teresa's welcome to the other side must have been sweeter than most - Mormon or otherwise.

Honestly, I have no idea. But the goodness that countenances many of those that return gives me a thread of hope that there is a loving Deity that does not discount our value - and perhaps there is more to life than mortality.

Thanks for the honest question, Nehor. I appreciate your posts.

[_The Nehor]

Inconceivable I do not see myself as being some kind of chosen one.

Honestly if the LDS faith is true and the most helpful guide to goodness is therein and someone else is doing better than me outside of it than they are not ahead of me by the difference between us but by much, much, more. Holding a proposition (like the Church is true) is not that praiseworthy. Acting on it is. I remember after a testimony meeting on my Mission my President stood up and kindly but firmly said he was afraid. He believed that most of us meant everything we said but was worried that we weren't acting on it.

I learned not so long ago that no one has or will pass mortality with flying colors (except the Messiah), some have a passing grade is all.

I think death will be eye-opening. I expect I will find peace but also a great understanding of what I have done and what I should have done. I expect to quickly repent and then move on to bigger and better things. Hopefully all my cynicism and my jaded outlook will die too.

[_Inconceivable]

Inconceivable I do not see myself as being some kind of chosen one.

Honestly if the LDS faith is true and the most helpful guide to goodness is therein and someone else is doing better than me outside of it than they are not ahead of me by the difference between us but by much, much, more. Holding a proposition (like the Church is true) is not that praiseworthy. Acting on it is. I remember after a testimony meeting on my Mission my President stood up and kindly but firmly said he was afraid. He believed that most of us meant everything we said but was worried that we weren't acting on it.

I learned not so long ago that no one has or will pass mortality with flying colors (except the Messiah), some have a passing grade is all.

I think death will be eye-opening. I expect I will find peace but also a great understanding of what I have done and what I should have done. I expect to quickly repent and then move on to bigger and better things. Hopefully all my cynicism and my jaded outlook will die too.

I think your statements are well spoken and we're in agreement on much of it. I see you as one that makes no assumption of entitlement.

My original point is that truly there are an amazing number of accounts of those that testify they have been on the other side, and most say that it was a good place. It has been healthy for me to study the accounts of these people to enlighten and inspire me to live the way many of them now live.

I draw my conclusion from my reading that it's not about how we perform here in order to get some lofty reward on the other side. It's more of an affirmation that we are immediately blessed with peace each moment we live a kind and peaceable life.

I now don't agree with the entire verse, but this much seemed to fit my belief if you consider the two greatest commandments:

24 .. he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you..
(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 2:24)

[_Dakotah]

"Unless you're dead, you're not dead, and these reported experiences are meaningless. I only consider a person dead if they don't come back."

Lazarus?

[_Livingstone22]

As for things like "out of body experiences" and "coming back from being dead," I cannot say. But if I ever have one, I'll come and tell you. I have had very vivid dreams, but I believe they are just that--dreams. Other people have purported to have near death experiences, but I cannot make a judgement on how valid those experiences are.

I had a philosophy of religion professor who pointed out that perhaps the Mormon position on materialism was more conducive to explaining out of body experiences more-so than the traditional Christian notions. Since Mormonism believes that the spirit is material, and that we have a material spirit body that is separate from the mortal body, we could have an experience in which we could perceive our dead body on an operating table, for instance, because our spirit can take up space-time.

[_Black Moclips]

I've always been intrigued by NDE stories and have read several books by people having those experiences. "Return from Tomorrow" is a great one by George Ritchie. I don't know if God exists or not. I was raised and conditioned to believe he does, so I tend to lean that way, but I fully realize he may not. I consider NDE's to be some of the best evidence that there may be something out there. However, that said, I've yet to hear of an NDE where the holy being that is met (God, Jesus, angels, etc) tells them which religion is correct or what church to join. The main focus of the NDE seems to be a life review where the person learns how they have treated others and how what they did affected other people. I find that very interesting because it suggest that a particular religion isn't all that important. Its all about what kind of person you have become (which I find a wonderful idea in contrast to the idea of a tally of all the commandments you have obeyed/broken and what ordinances you have received). Also there are quite a bit of christian NDE's that suggest some sort of reincarnation, which I also find very interesting. If I had to pick a belief system it would pretty much hinge around these two ideas - 1) life is about learning and progressing and becoming something better than you are, and 2) you will get many chances and in a huge variety of situations to do so, all with the underlying idea of reaping what you sow.