why eight years

[_karl61]

this my first post. I posted something on another board as karl61 but didn't really get any thoughtful responses.

why did it take eight years for the church to announce it was giving up polygamy. one of the articles of faith talks about "obeying, honoring and sustaining the law"

this is about the manifesto:

http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/emmain.asp?number=111

this is a case against Lorenzo Snow; note when congress passed a law against unlawful cohabitation.


http://supreme.justia.com/us/120/274/case.html

[_moksha]

The Church had no wish to give up polygamy till it absolutely had to do so. Even after the Manifesto it was practiced. There was a second "Manifesto" around 1904 curtailing it again and finally in the 1920s it was finally quashed for mainstream Mormons.

[_Inconceivable]

Welcome, and welcome to the tip of the iceberg Styleguy,

It matters on what you are really asking for.

My opinion is that the Mormon God gave a commandment to live the law of celectial marriage and the more prominant (this is my word) obeyed. When opposition arose and laws were enacted to enforce prosecution of poligamy, the Mormon God abandoned His people rather than prepare a way for them to escape the temptation of living monogamosly (or he failed in softening the hearts of the "wicked" monogamos citizens of the United States.

Those that lived poligamy were caught in a damnedable position - disolve their illegal marriages that their God commanded them to practice (and cease cohabitation as well) - or practice it in the dark illegally like Joseph Smith did.

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

(Book of Mormon | 1 Nephi 3:7)

Another possible explanation would be that the members did not have faith sufficient to believe that their God would preserve them amidst persecution and execution of the laws of the "wicked" US government.

Either way, man stretched forth his puny arm and turned the course of a mighty river.

Now, some would argue as to who the Mormon god truly is - A kind, loving, merciful, albeit misunderstood and confusing God or perhaps Joseph Smith and a small group his inner associates.

Either way, it's a mess.

[_Livingstone22]

I'm surprised that most people actually regard the "1890 manifesto" as a pronouncement saying that polygamy would not be further practiced. That which president Woodruff said was that there was no "forty or any other number" of alleged plural marriages had taken place ("in our Temples or in any other place in the [Utah] Territory"), but that only one had been reported, which prompted him to take down the Endowment House. He gave the "advice" to the members to not contract any marriage that was "forbidden by the law of the land." I believe he was specifically talking about the laws of the United States--for if they were broken, he believed the Lord showed him that "confusion would reign throughout Israel [the LDS church], and many men would be made prisoners."

I don't see how people seem to confuse that Woodruff believed that the Lord specifically directed the members to actually stop plural marriage, or that it wasn't any longer a commandment. One would have to ask the question of what the laws were in other places that the Latter-day Saints were colonizing--most notably Alberta, Canada and Chihuahua, Mexico. Perhaps plural marriages continued in these places--unobstructed by the laws of Mexico and Canada.

[_ktallamigo]

I was reading "Forgotten Kingdom: The Mormon Theocracy in the American West" by David L. Bigler - and learned something I never knew before.

The leadership of the church during the 1880's believed that the second coming of Christ was imminent - that it would probably happen in 1890 or 1891. They believed that Christ would come and pour out vengeance upon the United States and the Kingdom of God (Mormons) would rule. In preparation for this the Council of Fifty was re-vitalized to await the time when they would rule the world.

Meanwhile, in the real world, the U.S. government was moving to confiscate church property (and they were afraid they would take the temples) and many men were being arrested and jailed, Utah was again denied statehood.

While the church was under pressure and backed into a corner, the time of the deadline for the second coming passed. The proclamation was probably issued to buy more time until the savior came. They didn't really intend to end polygamy.


I think that is what he was trying to say.

[_paulhadik]

Inconceivable:

I think they just plained wussed out. God never promises that obedience to Him will bring popularity or comfort or earthly riches. But the more I communicate with LDS I see them as quick to fold to worldly opinion.

[_harmony]

Inconceivable:

I think they just plained wussed out. God never promises that obedience to Him will bring popularity or comfort or earthly riches. But the more I communicate with LDS I see them as quick to fold to worldly opinion.

Or it could be that polygamy never was from God in the first place, and the men who practiced it were reaping their just reward from a just God who isn't amused when a man puts words into his mouth.

[_Inconceivable]

Yes Harmony, if I were God (and I used to think I would become one) I would have served some come-up'ins to my ancestors as well.

An interesting point about the 1880's Jesus/2nd Coming. Smith "revealed" that Jesus would come when he was 85 years old (if he lived to 85). Just like all the other idiots that buy into this, once the d-day is past they bury the "mis-calculation" and set a new date.

Bottom line is that the Mormon adulterers had backed themselves into a shredder. The new laws governing the territory were tragic at best for the families that had made polygamy an institution. It was "tough love" administered by the US government. In my opinion, justly so.

I can't imagine that in a God's infinite wisdom, He could not see the end from the beginning (Mormon adultery). I do believe that Smith made this "doctrine" up. Why else would he have practiced it in the dark? Even he knew the consequences for his actions were not accepted (and never would be) in civilized society.

It's shameful and pathetic that some would attempt to justify such a deplorable and decadent practice against women and a civilized world (and believe that a kind, loving, merciful and moral God had any influence instigating it).

[_paulhadik]

harmony

for the record I agree with you 100%. I just think the waffling on polygamy is one of the most interesting aspects of LDS history

[_Dakotah]

It is my understanding that plural marriage was illegal in both Mexico and Canada. All those who moved there to continue the practice did so in violation of the laws of those countries.

If this is incorrect, someone please let me know so I don't go about telling incorrect information.