Faith Oriented Thread for Believers of God or a Higher Power

[_Inconceivable]

I waited a few days to read the thread and I guess I'm glad I did. I didn't figure it would go particularly far without someone pouting about it not being fair and sucking everyone into an argument about nothing.

You you win again, Jak and marj. It seems that many are willing to acknowledge your relentless spiked flat dodgeball mantras whenever you show up.

Moksha, Liz, Nehor and others: If you would like to maintain the flow of a specific topic, try not responding to someone blowing the thread. And literally, for God's sake, quit repeating everything the hijacker says.

Why don't you try this thread again? I'd like to be civil and participate as well as gain deeper understanding of things spiritual.

[_The Nehor]

I waited a few days to read the thread and I guess I'm glad I did. I didn't figure it would go particularly far without someone pouting about it not being fair and sucking everyone into an argument about nothing.

You you win again, Jak and marj. It seems that many are willing to acknowledge your relentless spiked flat dodgeball mantras whenever you show up.

Moksha, Liz, Nehor and others: If you would like to maintain the flow of a specific topic, try not responding to someone blowing the thread. And literally, for God's sake, quit repeating everything the hijacker says.

Why don't you try this thread again? I'd like to be civil and participate as well as gain deeper understanding of things spiritual.

Let us taunt them. Hopefully it will make them so cross that they will make a mistake.

[_Yoda]

I waited a few days to read the thread and I guess I'm glad I did. I didn't figure it would go particularly far without someone pouting about it not being fair and sucking everyone into an argument about nothing.

You you win again, Jak and marj. It seems that many are willing to acknowledge your relentless spiked flat dodgeball mantras whenever you show up.

Moksha, Liz, Nehor and others: If you would like to maintain the flow of a specific topic, try not responding to someone blowing the thread. And literally, for God's sake, quit repeating everything the hijacker says.

Why don't you try this thread again? I'd like to be civil and participate as well as gain deeper understanding of things spiritual.

Thanks, Inconceivable.

You're right.

;)

[_Yoda]

I'm taking Inconceivable's advice, and am going to try to steer the discussion in another direction.

I wasn't going to do this, but I will share the experience I have been stewing about sharing.

About 15 years ago, my grandmother passed away. She was always very dear to me and an integral part of my life.

My husband and two small children and I were living in Utah at the time. My Grandmother resided in California.

She had a sudden stroke and was admitted into the hospital. She was basically considered "brain dead" and was being kept alive on life support. My Dad and his brothers had the task of making the decision to turn off the machines.

Before Dad called me and told me what was going on, I had a vision. My husband and the girls had gone to the store and I was home alone, catching up on some studying in my bedroom. My grandmother appeared to me. I seriously thought I was losing my mind. I had NEVER experienced anything like this before.

Grandma sat on the bed next to me and spoke to me...carrying on a conversation just like any normal conversation I would have with her. There was a soft light around her, but she looked basically like she had always looked, except calmer...more serene.

She took my hand in hers, and said, "Elizabeth, I have had a stroke. I am going to die. Your father is going to call you, and tell you that they are contemplating turning off life support. I want you to let him know that it's ok. I'm happy. I'll be with Pop (my grandpa), Grandma Mable (my great-grandma), and Grandpa Earl. They're going to keep me very busy from what I understand. I'm going to be doing some missionary work.

Now...about the funeral....I would like you and Todd (my brother) to sing "Line Upon Line"...and I don't want my funeral to be some solemn event. I want it to feel like a missionary farewell because that's really what it is.

Please help comfort your Dad, Archie, Jack, and Pat(my uncles). Poor Pat. He's going to have the hardest time with all of this. I love you. I'm so proud of you, and I'll be looking out for you."

There was more said between us, but that was the gist of it. She was gone.

About 15 minutes later, my Dad called and filled me in on what was happening with Grandma. I told him that I already knew. He was crying. I told him that it was ok to turn off life support. That's what Grandma wants. I told him about the funeral plans.

The funeral was carried out exactly as Grandma wanted...and I have felt her presence from time to time over the years.

Let me emphasize that NO ONE had contacted me regarding anything that had happened with Grandma before she appeared to me.

I was living in a different state. There was no way I could have known what had happened.

I've never written this experience out before, or related it to anyone besides my Dad, my brother, and my husband.

I have never been prone to hallucinations...and...even if I was....how could I hallucinate something that I had no prior knowledge of?

This experience confirmed to me that there is a life beyond this one.

I think there are a lot of unknowns....but I do believe that we will see loved ones who have died again based on this experience.

[_marg]

I Why don't you try this thread again? I'd like to be civil and participate as well as gain deeper understanding of things spiritual.

You're the one not civil, let's be honest here. Your whole post was ad hominem, as are many of your previous posts to me.

Since you want deeper understanding of the "spiritual" I think it would be remiss to not have Nehor's detailed explanation of his spectacular spiritual experiences to ponder. Enjoy. You guys deserve each other.

Both at different times (not at same time). Visions tend to just hit me. Once there was a command to shut eyes and I saw. Once with eyes open I saw things. Both of these ones were to convey information. It was a guided tour type visitation where I was shown things I'd never thought of before. The Holy Ghost was there and explained things as it unfolded. I could ask questions and get answers. I can't share what I was told though, sorry.

[_ozemc]

I'm taking Inconceivable's advice, and am going to try to steer the discussion in another direction.

I wasn't going to do this, but I will share the experience I have been stewing about sharing.

About 15 years ago, my grandmother passed away. She was always very dear to me and an integral part of my life.

My husband and two small children and I were living in Utah at the time. My Grandmother resided in California.

She had a sudden stroke and was admitted into the hospital. She was basically considered "brain dead" and was being kept alive on life support. My Dad and his brothers had the task of making the decision to turn off the machines.

Before Dad called me and told me what was going on, I had a vision. My husband and the girls had gone to the store and I was home alone, catching up on some studying in my bedroom. My grandmother appeared to me. I seriously thought I was losing my mind. I had NEVER experienced anything like this before.

Grandma sat on the bed next to me and spoke to me...carrying on a conversation just like any normal conversation I would have with her. There was a soft light around her, but she looked basically like she had always looked, except calmer...more serene.

She took my hand in hers, and said, "Elizabeth, I have had a stroke. I am going to die. Your father is going to call you, and tell you that they are contemplating turning off life support. I want you to let him know that it's ok. I'm happy. I'll be with Pop (my grandpa), Grandma Mable (my great-grandma), and Grandpa Earl. They're going to keep me very busy from what I understand. I'm going to be doing some missionary work.

Now...about the funeral....I would like you and Todd (my brother) to sing "Line Upon Line"...and I don't want my funeral to be some solemn event. I want it to feel like a missionary farewell because that's really what it is.

Please help comfort your Dad, Archie, Jack, and Pat(my uncles). Poor Pat. He's going to have the hardest time with all of this. I love you. I'm so proud of you, and I'll be looking out for you."

There was more said between us, but that was the gist of it. She was gone.

About 15 minutes later, my Dad called and filled me in on what was happening with Grandma. I told him that I already knew. He was crying. I told him that it was ok to turn off life support. That's what Grandma wants. I told him about the funeral plans.

The funeral was carried out exactly as Grandma wanted...and I have felt her presence from time to time over the years.

Let me emphasize that NO ONE had contacted me regarding anything that had happened with Grandma before she appeared to me.

I was living in a different state. There was no way I could have known what had happened.

I've never written this experience out before, or related it to anyone besides my Dad, my brother, and my husband.

I have never been prone to hallucinations...and...even if I was....how could I hallucinate something that I had no prior knowledge of?

This experience confirmed to me that there is a life beyond this one.

I think there are a lot of unknowns....but I do believe that we will see loved ones who have died again based on this experience.

That's incredible, Liz. Thanks for sharing that with us.

I had an incident that, while I didn't know about it at the time, was still very life-affirming fo me.

In 1995, I was in a very serious head-on collision that almost cost me my life. I was in the ICU for two days on a respirator. I still carry scars and nerve damage to this day.

Anyway, on one of my follow-up visits to the trauma surgeon, the doctor was discussing about what went on in the hospital since I couldn't remember.

At one point, he indicated that he came up late one night, and there was a woman in the room standing off to one side in the shadows. He didn't talk to her, just kind of noticed she was there, like doctors and nurses do, looked at the monitors that were attached to me, and left.

He indicated to my wife and I that she appeared to be an older woman, and he assumed that she was my mother. He indicated that she seemed to be a short woman, kind of hunched over, with reddish hair. As I have reddish hair, he thought he could see the resemblance. He described a woman that looked like my mother.

Right then and there, my wife and I looked at each other, and the hair on our arms stood on end.

You see, my mother had passed away in 1974.

We told him that the person he saw couldn't have been my mother, as she was dead, and maybe he saw my wife, even though we both knew she would not have been there that late; she was home with our kids, at the time 4 and 9. He said no, it was late, and this person was much older than my wife.

No other family members or friends were at the hospital either. This was late at night long after visiting hours were over.

The only thing we could attribute it to was that, because I was in such sad shape, I was in critical condition, my mother came to make sure that I was going to be OK, and, if I wasn't, to be there to take me whereever I was going to go.

Again, like you Liz, this made me realize that something happens after we die, whatever it is.

[_Sam Harris]

Kudos to those who have sought to keep the thread on track despite the efforts of the "rational" to "respectfully" derail it.

I think that when our loved ones leave they do try to make contact with us.

My great-grandmother died my senior year in high school. I didn't find out about it right away, because I was doing something that at the time (and years before when I saw other high schoolers do it) seemed important to me. I was singing in a very large chorus that was comprised of kids from the ten school districts in northern va. I had sang in this choir in middle school, and when I heard the high school choir sing, I was so impressed with their sound. The middle school kids sounded like kindergarteners next to them, and I remember telling mom in 7th grade that when I became a senior I was going to sing in district.

Well I did, I auditioned, scoring the highest out of every soprano there. I took my excitement home to mom.

The week of the concert we were let out of school to rehearse all day for the concert that saturday. As I sat there with my classmates, thoughts of my great-grandmother kept coming to mind, it was as if she were sitting there next to me, I couldn't shake it off, I kept thinking about her and thinking about her, talking to my friends about her, remembering funny things about her.

She had actually died that monday, as I sat thinking about her so much. She was buried that saturday as I was singing in this chorus I had waited years to sing in.

My mom made the judgment call, telling me that she didn't want to take this dream from me, though I would have much rather have buried my great-grandmother. I don't even know where she is buried, and I've never seen her grave. But I'll never forget that day, how she was on my mind so much, it was as if she were trying to reach me. I felt that, as I rode home that saturday night, I understood, that was how she was trying to say goodbye to me, one of her favorite great-grandchildren.

I am blessed. The last memory I have of my great-grandmother is from the 10th of July, 1998. I was returning to northern VA to wait for my mom to come home from Germany. I had been living in southern VA with dad, stepmom, bratty brother and great-grandmother (as well as extended kin) for a year and a half.

On that day as I went to kiss my great-grandmother goodbye, she looked at me with the most happy, radiant smile and said, "I love you". That is how I remember her, that is how I will always see her. God is good.

The day my father died, his last words to me were "I love you". He could barely speak, he was so sick. And I was so angry and into myself that I didn't see the tsunami coming my way.

That night as I lay sleeping with my little brother beside me (whose mom had died three years before, he was so terrified, and would not be near anyone but me), I heard someone whispering in my ear. I could not make out what they were saying because I was on the edge of sleep, but I swear, someone was leaning over my ear whispering.

I sat up, looked around. There was no one in the room. As I lay back down, my heart told me that it was probably my father telling me goodbye for the final time. I do miss him.

I think there is a connection beyond this life, but I think we spend too much time trying to define it, and that is where the trouble and strife comes in. If we could just admit that our perceptions are just that, perceptions, and that we often diminish the Divine by trying to put it into words because words are so limited, we'd be better off. I know that I am who and where I am spiritually because of the culture I was born into. To deny that would be stupid.

One more wierd thing: From time to time I read tarot cards. I do not think they can straight predict the future, but something very weird happened the day my dad took sick. Again, my selfishness was in play, and I didn't see what was coming.

You can do readings in which you can time things, by day, week, months. I asked when I would be "free to go home", as my father had taken sick the day he was supposed to take me back home (we'd had many problems that summer), and I thought he was just faking it to keep me there.

The cards said five days. My dad died five days later. I sure was free to go home, Daddy was gone, and all of the relatives were pouring in. It would be ten days from the day I did that reading before I actually left the place where I was, but it was my perception of my father's illness holding me back that I was asking about. When he died, and the illness released him, in a way it did me as well, according to the self-centered question that I asked. Be careful what you ask for.

[_ajax18]

Those are some awesome experiences. My question is how do you think our own perspective influences what we see in these experiences.

When I read Betty Eadie's NDE book she made the point that it didn't matter which church we went to as long as we went. Would you say this was due to her own bias she carried into the experience or is she right on the money?

You mentioned missionary work Liz. I guess that one scares me a little. I never liked missionary work much. I'm not sure I'd be looking forward to that.