Fear God and Fear the Church!!

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Shulem
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Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Shulem »

The founding principle upon which The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is governed is FEAR. The principle of instilling fear into the hearts and minds of the members of the Church is the overriding factor in keeping order within the Church and maintaining testimony to the brethren who preside over the Church.

Members of the Church will obviously disagree and claim that love through Jesus Christ is the foundation of their Church. But that simply is not true and is not manifest in the Church. You see, Jesus Christ is only the imagination in the mind of each member -- he is not manifest in person. He is in their minds, forever unseen -- pure faith. Each member claims to love Jesus Christ, the person in their mind, the person they think they are feeling through vibration that runs through them which they claim is the Holy Ghost. But it’s only a claim. They can’t prove it or even touch a real Jesus Christ because their testimony is based solely on faith, not by sight. Therefore, when the member says they “KNOW”, they do not really know but think they know because their testimony is based on faith. Has Jesus Christ appeared to them and manifested himself in the flesh? No! Therefore they cannot know unless they can see and have a perfect knowledge.

It is fear that keeps the Church running. It has always been about fear. Fear is what keeps the members in line and toeing that line is required by the leaders who demand total unconditional obedience. Fear God and fear the Church!
Last edited by Shulem on Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Faith & Fear

Post by Shulem »

Are you a God-fearing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? If so, ask yourself the following question and see what meaning it may have in your personal thoughts about God and religion:

In whom do I fear more?

[ ] Man
[ ] Jesus


Joseph Smith gave every Latter-day Saint the answer in whom they should fear:

“For, behold, you should not have feared man more than God. Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words” (D&C 3:7)

In other words, first & foremost, fear God.

Faith & fear go hand in hand. Every member of the church is commanded to possess both! When one is filled with faith & fear towards God they are blinded by the craftiness of religion -- even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Shulem »

I respectively ask that Dr. Shades, our beloved host, please grant me another exception in using red ink with regard to board rules.


Fear is a negative aspect of human thought and emotion. It is not good no matter how well intentioned its use is. Fear is not good in the least degree except perhaps to survive using our human instincts which naturally kick in. But to develop fear towards God or a Church is not good. The word "fear" or the practice of fear in any degree for religious reasons should have no place in spirituality.

Fear is used by religion to control your mind and make your feel guilty when you fail to measure up to whatever standards the religion requires.

Webster's Dictionary 1828 wrote:FEAR, noun [See the Verb.]

1. A painful emotion or passion excited by an expectation of evil, or the apprehension of impending danger. fear expresses less apprehension than dread, and dread less than terror and fright. The force of this passion, beginning with the most moderate degree, may be thus expressed, fear dread, terror, fright. fear is accompanied with a desire to avoid or ward off the expected evil. fear is an uneasiness of mind, upon the thought of future evil likely to befall us.

FEAR is the passion of our nature which excites us to provide for our security, on the approach of evil.

2. Anxiety; solicitude.

The principal fear was for the holy temple.

3. The cause of fear

Thy angel becomes a fear

4. The object of fear

Except the God of Abraham, and the fear of Isaac, had been with me. Genesis 31:42.

5. Something set or hung up to terrify wild animals, by its color or noise. Isaiah 24:17. Jeremiah 48:43.

6. In scripture, fear is used to express a filial or a slavish passion. In good men, the fear of God is a holy awe or reverence of God and his laws, which springs from a just view and real love of the divine character, leading the subjects of it to hate and shun every thing that can offend such a holy being, and inclining them to aim at perfect obedience. This is filial fear

I will put my fear in their hearts. Jeremiah 32:39.

Slavish fear is the effect or consequence of guilt; it is the painful apprehension of merited punishment. Romans 8:15.

The love of God casteth out fear 1 John 4:1.

7. The worship of God.

I will teach you the fear of the Lord. Psalms 34:7.

8. The law and word of God.

The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever. Psalms 19:9.

9. Reverence; respect; due regard.

Render to all their dues; fear to whom fear Romans 13:7.

FEAR, verb transitive [Latin vereor.]

1. To feel a painful apprehension of some impending evil; to be afraid of; to consider or expect with emotions of alarm or solicitude. We fear the approach of an enemy or of a storm. We have reason to fear the punishment of our sins.

I will fear no evil, for thou art with me. Psa 23.

2. To reverence; to have a reverential awe; to venerate.

This do, and live: for I fear God. Genesis 42:18.

3. To affright; to terrify; to drive away or prevent approach by fear or by a scarecrow. [This seems to be the primary meaning, but now obsolete.]

We must not make a scarecrow of the law, setting it up to fear the birds of prey.

FEAR, verb intransitive To be in apprehension of evil; to be afraid; to feel anxiety on account of some expected evil.

But I fear lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3.

FEAR not, Abram:I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. Gen 15.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

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D&C 45:2 wrote:And again I say, hearken unto my voice, lest death shall overtake you; in an hour when ye think not the summer shall be past, and the harvest ended, and your souls not saved.

That’s a death threat against church members who fail to heed the Lord’s voice and perhaps even those who are not of the Church. It’s very threatening sounding. It instills fear and consequences against those who do not obey.

D&C 45:39 wrote:And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man.

I for one am NOT looking for signs of the coming of Jesus, a man who lived and died 2,000 years ago. I don’t believe it and would encourage others to disregard fearful signs prophesied in Mormon scripture. They are given to instill fear and cause guilt.

D&C 45:50 wrote:And calamity shall cover the mocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.

These death threats against my life do not frighten me. I encourage the Mormons to give up the hope of a returning Christ which is vain faith. It will not happen. Jesus is not coming. Jesus is not going to kill me or punish me for telling you this and mocking the prophecy.

I have no fear of Jesus. None whatsoever.

D&C 45:74 wrote:For when the Lord shall appear he shall be terrible unto them, that fear may seize upon them, and they shall stand afar off and tremble.

I do not believe these horrible threats against my life are credible. I do not believe that Jesus is coming in the clouds and that my life is in jeopardy because I do not subscribe to the Christian religion or Mormon creeds and commandments.

I am not afraid of these threats given by Joseph Smith. I live my life and have my joy in happiness in my own salvation. I walk in my own joy and govern my own life as I see fit.

Amen.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Atlanticmike »

Shulem wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:59 pm
The founding principle upon which The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is governed is FEAR. The principle of instilling fear into the hearts and minds of the members of the Church is the overriding factor in keeping order within the Church and maintaining testimony to the brethren who preside over the Church.

Members of the Church will obviously disagree and claim that love through Jesus Christ is the foundation of their Church. But that simply is not true and is not manifest in the Church. You see, Jesus Christ is only the imagination in the mind of each member -- he is not manifest in person. He is in their minds, forever unseen -- pure faith. Each member claims to love Jesus Christ, the person in their mind, the person they think they are feeling through vibration that runs through them which they claim is the Holy Ghost. But it’s only a claim. They can’t prove it or even touch a real Jesus Christ because their testimony is based solely on faith, not by sight. Therefore, when the member says they “KNOW”, they do not really know but think they know because their testimony is based on faith. Has Jesus Christ appeared to them and manifested himself in the flesh? No! Therefore they cannot know unless they can see and have a perfect knowledge.

It is fear that keeps the Church running. It has always been about fear. Fear is what keeps the members in line and toeing that line is required by the leaders who demand total unconditional obedience. Fear God and fear the Church!
The fear of death is why all religions are able to keep order, not just Mormonism. I haven't feared death for a while now. I think that's why I don't fear God.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Res Ipsa »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:12 pm
Shulem wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:59 pm
The founding principle upon which The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is governed is FEAR. The principle of instilling fear into the hearts and minds of the members of the Church is the overriding factor in keeping order within the Church and maintaining testimony to the brethren who preside over the Church.

Members of the Church will obviously disagree and claim that love through Jesus Christ is the foundation of their Church. But that simply is not true and is not manifest in the Church. You see, Jesus Christ is only the imagination in the mind of each member -- he is not manifest in person. He is in their minds, forever unseen -- pure faith. Each member claims to love Jesus Christ, the person in their mind, the person they think they are feeling through vibration that runs through them which they claim is the Holy Ghost. But it’s only a claim. They can’t prove it or even touch a real Jesus Christ because their testimony is based solely on faith, not by sight. Therefore, when the member says they “KNOW”, they do not really know but think they know because their testimony is based on faith. Has Jesus Christ appeared to them and manifested himself in the flesh? No! Therefore they cannot know unless they can see and have a perfect knowledge.

It is fear that keeps the Church running. It has always been about fear. Fear is what keeps the members in line and toeing that line is required by the leaders who demand total unconditional obedience. Fear God and fear the Church!
The fear of death is why all religions are able to keep order, not just Mormonism. I haven't feared death for a while now. I think that's why I don't fear God.
I suspect that fear of death is a part of it. I also think the brain's bias towards causality and intentionality is a factor. I try to be an Epicurean, with the degree of success varying from day to day.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you think about death? Or do you think about it?
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Atlanticmike »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:34 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:12 pm


The fear of death is why all religions are able to keep order, not just Mormonism. I haven't feared death for a while now. I think that's why I don't fear God.
I suspect that fear of death is a part of it. I also think the brain's bias towards causality and intentionality is a factor. I try to be an Epicurean, with the degree of success varying from day to day.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you think about death? Or do you think about it?
Oh boy! I'm getting ready to get really weird on you. I think about death a lot. And I can actually say I think about death enough that I'm not scared of it. The weird part is I often find myself smiling sometimes when thinking about death. It's not that I want to die, I'm just at complete peace with the thought of passing away. I've come to realize that if there is a God and he is the inventor and scientist of all the wonders and beauty we enjoy while living here, there's no way FEAR is part of his plan. A true connection with God can't be found in any building or any group setting in my opinion. God has equipped every single one of us with the ability to communicate with him and all we need to do is learn how to get out of our own way for that to happen. The two biggest obstacles are fear and pride. I've had a lot of problems with depression in my life, especially the first 25 years or so. But over the last 20 years I've learned how to control my depression without any medications. I use positive repetitive thought and what I call music therapy. Whatever my mood is, I'll match it with a genre of my favorite music and it will help calm me down if I'm feeling depressed. I don't really know how, but I think learning how to deal with my depression really helped me conquer my fear about death and God. Life is beautiful and fear can definitely keep us from understanding just how lucky we really are.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Res Ipsa »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:53 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:34 pm


I suspect that fear of death is a part of it. I also think the brain's bias towards causality and intentionality is a factor. I try to be an Epicurean, with the degree of success varying from day to day.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you think about death? Or do you think about it?
Oh boy! I'm getting ready to get really weird on you. I think about death a lot. And I can actually say I think about death enough that I'm not scared of it. The weird part is I often find myself smiling sometimes when thinking about death. It's not that I want to die, I'm just at complete peace with the thought of passing away. I've come to realize that if there is a God and he is the inventor and scientist of all the wonders and beauty we enjoy while living here, there's no way FEAR is part of his plan. A true connection with God can't be found in any building or any group setting in my opinion. God has equipped every single one of us with the ability to communicate with him and all we need to do is learn how to get out of our own way for that to happen. The two biggest obstacles are fear and pride. I've had a lot of problems with depression in my life, especially the first 25 years or so. But over the last 20 years I've learned how to control my depression without any medications. I use positive repetitive thought and what I call music therapy. Whatever my mood is, I'll match it with a genre of my favorite music and it will help calm me down if I'm feeling depressed. I don't really know how, but I think learning how to deal with my depression really helped me conquer my fear about death and God. Life is beautiful and fear can definitely keep us from understanding just how lucky we really are.
I'm going to get weirder, because I don't find anything you said weird at all. :lol: I like the way you've thought through what I would describe as putting trust in your God. As a fellow wrestler with depression, I'm happy to hear how you've coped with it. It takes me medication plus meditation and music to keep me on a relatively even keel. I, too, find that life is beautiful and that fear (except if I run into a bear) is an obstacle to appreciating how lucky I am. (That's the way I tend to think of myself -- a very lucky lump of sentient carbon.)

Thanks.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Atlanticmike »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:32 am
Atlanticmike wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:53 pm


Oh boy! I'm getting ready to get really weird on you. I think about death a lot. And I can actually say I think about death enough that I'm not scared of it. The weird part is I often find myself smiling sometimes when thinking about death. It's not that I want to die, I'm just at complete peace with the thought of passing away. I've come to realize that if there is a God and he is the inventor and scientist of all the wonders and beauty we enjoy while living here, there's no way FEAR is part of his plan. A true connection with God can't be found in any building or any group setting in my opinion. God has equipped every single one of us with the ability to communicate with him and all we need to do is learn how to get out of our own way for that to happen. The two biggest obstacles are fear and pride. I've had a lot of problems with depression in my life, especially the first 25 years or so. But over the last 20 years I've learned how to control my depression without any medications. I use positive repetitive thought and what I call music therapy. Whatever my mood is, I'll match it with a genre of my favorite music and it will help calm me down if I'm feeling depressed. I don't really know how, but I think learning how to deal with my depression really helped me conquer my fear about death and God. Life is beautiful and fear can definitely keep us from understanding just how lucky we really are.
I'm going to get weirder, because I don't find anything you said weird at all. :lol: I like the way you've thought through what I would describe as putting trust in your God. As a fellow wrestler with depression, I'm happy to hear how you've coped with it. It takes me medication plus meditation and music to keep me on a relatively even keel. I, too, find that life is beautiful and that fear (except if I run into a bear) is an obstacle to appreciating how lucky I am. (That's the way I tend to think of myself -- a very lucky lump of sentient carbon.)

Thanks.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Shulem »

Glad to see there are others who do not fear death or God. You should fear neither because why would you fear yourself? Death is nothing more or less than the transition of energy and thought from one place to another. Death is a sweet transition from one level to another. And, I believe we have done this many times before and will do it many times again.

Life is a wonderful experience where fear must be controlled and ultimately done away. Fear is designed to protect us as a natural instinct to survive and keep ourselves safe. Fear of predators and those that harm us is perfectly natural. In fear it must be determined in an instant to fight or flee in order to protect ourselves.

But to fear God is something the Church made up. God doesn’t want anyone to fear him. Fear of God is not a natural instinct. It’s not beautiful. Do children fear God? No. It is a learned behavior taught by priests and the Church.

Fear of death is a natural thing that everyone is entitled to overcome. Why does death cause us to fear? Death is the ultimate predator! It is death that harms us and literally kills us and that is what causes us to fear and worry about how it will go down. But we may learn to master ourselves and not fear the ultimate predator but flee from the very idea that it harms us and is actually a natural part of our evolution. If we learn to master life then we can therefore master death.

Amen.
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