Fear God and Fear the Church!!

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Res Ipsa »

Shulem wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:39 pm
Glad to see there are others who do not fear death or God. You should fear neither because why would you fear yourself? Death is nothing more or less than the transition of energy and thought from one place to another. Death is a sweet transition from one level to another. And, I believe we have done this many times before and will do it many times again.

Life is a wonderful experience where fear must be controlled and ultimately done away. Fear is designed to protect us as a natural instinct to survive and keep ourselves safe. Fear of predators and those that harm us is perfectly natural. In fear it must be determined in an instant to fight or flee in order to protect ourselves.

But to fear God is something the Church made up. God doesn’t want anyone to fear him. Fear of God is not a natural instinct. It’s not beautiful. Do children fear God? No. It is a learned behavior taught by priests and the Church.

Fear of death is a natural thing that everyone is entitled to overcome. Why does death cause us to fear? Death is the ultimate predator! It is death that harms us and literally kills us and that is what causes us to fear and worry about how it will go down. But we may learn to master ourselves and not fear the ultimate predator but flee from the very idea that it harms us and is actually a natural part of our evolution. If we learn to master life then we can therefore master death.

Amen.
While I agree that death involves the transfer of energy and matter, I don't believe that thought is transferred anywhere by death. No levels. El Fin. I don't see death as a predator, but as the natural conclusion to what we call life. I feel extremely lucky to be alive and sentient, and death is just a part of of the life experience. I think it is natural to fear the unknwown, and the brain has no referent for death. (Maybe anesthesia....)

I also don't view life and death as things to be mastered. Experienced? Yes. Accepted? Hopefully. But not mastered.

Brains are weird and humans are funny.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Shulem »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:20 pm
While I agree that death involves the transfer of energy and matter, I don't believe that thought is transferred anywhere by death. No levels. El Fin. I don't see death as a predator, but as the natural conclusion to what we call life. I feel extremely lucky to be alive and sentient, and death is just a part of of the life experience. I think it is natural to fear the unknwown, and the brain has no referent for death. (Maybe anesthesia....)

I also don't view life and death as things to be mastered. Experienced? Yes. Accepted? Hopefully. But not mastered.

Brains are weird and humans are funny.

You will agree that your thoughts are who you are. You are what you think. Everything you do and say is based on what you think. It can be said that thought is energy. In fact, it can be strongly argued that energy and thought are one in the same! My thoughts are energy and they can vary in intensity and frequency.

In death, you will not remain where you are. Your energy goes elsewhere. You go elsewhere. When you die you leave the room so to speak. To me, that is a transfer. To me that is going from one place to another – another level, another place, another reality in its entirety.

Yes, death IS the natural conclusion of life. That cannot be disputed or argued. Neither can it be prevented or overcome. You and I must die. Nothing can stop that. How we view death is entirely a different matter because everyone views death in their own way that is unique to them. Why do I call it a predator? Because death (ultimate predator) is going to kill you and you can’s stop it. You can run but you can’t hide. It will find you and eventually kill you. But as you say, this is the natural order of things and it is as natural as being born.

There are many who do view life as something to be mastered. Many great teachers across the great spectrum of human learning and experience encourage us to master our lives rather than let our lives just unfold in any way or manner without us having control of how we react to those things we cause to happen in our lives. I want to master life! And I have learned how to master my life. It’s a great secret and it take much time and effort. Master death? Yes, I want to master that too. I am the master over my own death and will face it head on with absolutely confidence.

I wish you well in your journey through life and death.
Res Ipsa
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Res Ipsa »

Shulem wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:03 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:20 pm
While I agree that death involves the transfer of energy and matter, I don't believe that thought is transferred anywhere by death. No levels. El Fin. I don't see death as a predator, but as the natural conclusion to what we call life. I feel extremely lucky to be alive and sentient, and death is just a part of of the life experience. I think it is natural to fear the unknwown, and the brain has no referent for death. (Maybe anesthesia....)

I also don't view life and death as things to be mastered. Experienced? Yes. Accepted? Hopefully. But not mastered.

Brains are weird and humans are funny.

You will agree that your thoughts are who you are. You are what you think. Everything you do and say is based on what you think. It can be said that thought is energy. In fact, it can be strongly argued that energy and thought are one in the same! My thoughts are energy and they can vary in intensity and frequency.

In death, you will not remain where you are. Your energy goes elsewhere. You go elsewhere. When you die you leave the room so to speak. To me, that is a transfer. To me that is going from one place to another – another level, another place, another reality in its entirety.

Yes, death IS the natural conclusion of life. That cannot be disputed or argued. Neither can it be prevented or overcome. You and I must die. Nothing can stop that. How we view death is entirely a different matter because everyone views death in their own way that is unique to them. Why do I call it a predator? Because death (ultimate predator) is going to kill you and you can’s stop it. You can run but you can’t hide. It will find you and eventually kill you. But as you say, this is the natural order of things and it is as natural as being born.

There are many who do view life as something to be mastered. Many great teachers across the great spectrum of human learning and experience encourage us to master our lives rather than let our lives just unfold in any way or manner without us having control of how we react to those things we cause to happen in our lives. I want to master life! And I have learned how to master my life. It’s a great secret and it take much time and effort. Master death? Yes, I want to master that too. I am the master over my own death and will face it head on with absolutely confidence.

I wish you well in your journey through life and death.
I don't mean to imply that my view is right and yours is wrong. I think of my sense of being "me" is part of a story that my brain tells to itself. Or maybe one portion of my brain tells to another portion. I think that thinking involves energy and that thoughts probably represent some sort of interaction of energy and matter. But, when I die, I think the energy in my brain simply disperses as entropy naturally increases.

Thanks for sharing how you think about life and death. The different ways people do that is endlessly fascinating to me.

I wish you well in your journey as well.
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Shulem
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

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Moses 7:1 wrote:And it came to pass that Enoch continued his speech, saying: Behold, our father Adam taught these things, and many have believed and become the sons of God, and many have believed not, and have perished in their sins, and are looking forth with fear, in torment, for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God to be poured out upon them.


The so-called pre-Christ gospel was taught by Adam and the patriarchs. Enoch informs the people that many believed and became sons of God through the gospel covenant which became the path they chose for their lives while living in mortality. But what about those who did not want the covenant path of the gospel of Christ to include blood oaths through animal sacrifice and baptism in water to cleanse what they call sin? The verse makes it perfectly clear that they are to be condemned and therefore perish in their sins because they rejected the mandated gospel given by Adam. So, what have they to look forward to? FEAR and lots of it! Not just the fear that they will feel at judgment but the very FEAR and WRATH of an angry God who is offended that they did not embrace the gospel covenant and wash away their sins with baptism.

Folks, these breathings and threats are horrific. If you don’t do what they say then it’s murder and mayhem for you later on when you suffer the wrath of God! Threats, threats, threats!!!

If you don’t join our Church and live our gospel you will therefore suffer horrible and painful torment at the hands of our angry God.

In my view, these teachings are nothing short of evil. They are wrong. They are designed to instill fear and give the impression that God is ever angry with those who don’t do exactly what men tell them to do in the name of God

I view the above teachings as cruel and even criminal in nature because it’s so threatening and coercive. In fact, teaching the doctrine that those who refuse to join a church for whatever reason they deem for the good of their own lives, and will suffer as a result of that refusal, is evil. This is certainly one of the abominable doctrines of Mormonism that needs to be done away.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

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D&C 76:5 wrote:For thus saith the Lord—I, the Lord, am merciful and gracious unto those who fear me, and delight to honor those who serve me in righteousness and in truth unto the end.

Or in other words, those who do NOT fear you (through what Joseph Smith says) will receive less mercy and less honor. You take no delight in honoring anyone who refuses to obey what Joseph Smith says they must do. Therefore, the disobedient go to the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdoms or, worse.

I totally get what’s being said here. Joseph Smith is usurping himself as God’s very voice and those who refuse him are refusing God. Smith is using God’s name to take total control for himself in running the Church. This is is how religion is often played out and how men take power in governing others through religion.

I do not believe Joseph Smith and neither do I fear his God.
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Spiritual Extortion

Post by Shulem »

D&C 64:23,24 wrote:Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

For after today cometh the burning—this is speaking after the manner of the Lord—for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon.

These are criminally minded threats coming out of the mind of Joseph Smith as he explores compelling ways to forcefully induce his followers into paying money to the Church. Pay or burn! Do or die! That is the message of this prophet who is building up his Church on the basis of making death threats. Refusal or failure to abide the tithing mandate is justification of a punishment on the order of pain of death from an angry and offended God.

These teaching by Joseph Smith are some of the most offensive things he ever taught. It is horrible to threaten others with death unless they pay up by putting a set amount of money into the coffers of the Church. Folks, I’m sorry to have to say that this is an evil and despicable practice. It’s as simple as that. The Church should remove these threats from the canon and provide means for church members to make donations without feeling guilty or threatened for failing to maintain a certain standard or not making a full donation.

Unfortunately, the Church ever continues to perpetuate the original threats given by Smith by referencing these verses in countless talks given by Church leaders. They make light of these death threats in admonishing church members to pay their tithing as if it’s a form of fire insurance or a shield from the flames of death. The implications of not paying tithing is like not having fire insurance and the loss of one’s home and everything or everyone in it is the result. These teachings are horrific and should be retracted.

How many donations have been paid to the Church because members felt threatened and unsafe if they failed to do so? Threatening people with death for failing to pay dues is a crime. These teachings are criminal in nature.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

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Joseph Smith was famous for spreading fear and threatening everyone with death and destruction for failing to follow his commands and to abide by the covenants which he was establishing.

January 4, 1833, the Prophet wrote to Mr. N. E. Seaton, an editor of a newspaper, the following words of counsel and warning concerning the state of the world and the purpose of the Lord in the restoration spoken of by the ancient prophets.

(Signed) JOSEPH SMITH, JUN.—DHC 1:312-316. wrote:
For some length of time I have been carefully reviewing the state of things, as it now appears, throughout our Christian land; and have looked at it with feelings of the most painful anxiety . . .

I behold the judgments of God that have swept, and are still sweeping hundreds and thousands of our race, and I fear unprepared, down to the shades of death . . .

I think that it is high time for a Christian world to awake out of sleep, and cry mightily to that God, day and night, whose anger we have justly incurred . . .

And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation; pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked of this generation from off the face of the land, to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country . . .

“Fear God, and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come” . . .


It’s do or die! The hour has come. It’s follow and obey Joseph Smith or face destruction. The statements above were given 188 years ago and were never fulfilled. In the end, it was Smith who met his own fate and his prophecies ever remain unfulfilled and always will. Smith dug his own pit and it seems he fell in at Carthage.

There is no need to fear Joseph Smith or his God.

Do not fear the Mormon Church!
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Philo Sofee »

the power and beauty of the ancient Greek Mysteries was in coming to fundamental grips with the transition of death. And they went on for over 2,000 years remarkably. the symbolisms is encoded in their tragedies and comedies, which, unfortunately for us, have become mysteries to us ourselves as we are so far removed in time from them, though we have some ideas that are helpful. It is a fascinating theme to look into.
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:39 pm
the power and beauty of the ancient Greek Mysteries was in coming to fundamental grips with the transition of death. And they went on for over 2,000 years remarkably. the symbolisms is encoded in their tragedies and comedies, which, unfortunately for us, have become mysteries to us ourselves as we are so far removed in time from them, though we have some ideas that are helpful. It is a fascinating theme to look into.

Death has ever been the marvelous and grandest off all mysteries pertaining to the human experience. First we are born, then we live, and last we die. It’s the third event that entails the mystery and has been a topic of confusion since time began. Death is the power-play used by religion to get adherents to comply with all the rules set by religion in order to gain the reward they promise is obtainable by keeping the so-called rules.

Mormonism ranks very high on the list of scaring its members with fear of being punished and rejected by an angry and vindictive God for failure to comply with the rules. Mormonism even takes it to the extreme that those who reject their religion after having received it could potentially become candidates of perdition and be cast off into outer darkness forever and ever.

In a way it could be said that Mormonism uses fear to keep their people inline the same way that Darth Vader used the Death Star to intimidate star systems and keep them in line by acquiescing to the Empire and serving the emperor.
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Atlanticmike
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Atlanticmike »

Shulem wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:34 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:39 pm
the power and beauty of the ancient Greek Mysteries was in coming to fundamental grips with the transition of death. And they went on for over 2,000 years remarkably. the symbolisms is encoded in their tragedies and comedies, which, unfortunately for us, have become mysteries to us ourselves as we are so far removed in time from them, though we have some ideas that are helpful. It is a fascinating theme to look into.

Death has ever been the marvelous and grandest off all mysteries pertaining to the human experience. First we are born, then we live, and last we die. It’s the third event that entails the mystery and has been a topic of confusion since time began. Death is the power-play used by religion to get adherents to comply with all the rules set by religion in order to gain the reward they promise is obtainable by keeping the so-called rules.

Mormonism ranks very high on the list of scaring its members with fear of being punished and rejected by an angry and vindictive God for failure to comply with the rules. Mormonism even takes it to the extreme that those who reject their religion after having received it could potentially become candidates of perdition and be cast off into outer darkness forever and ever.

In a way it could be said that Mormonism uses fear to keep their people inline the same way that Darth Vader used the Death Star to intimidate star systems and keep them in line by acquiescing to the Empire and serving the emperor.
A very large percentage of people find comfort in being told what to do, by people they will probably never meet in person, so they can hopefully one day live again with their love ones in a different realm. Do religions use fear? Yes! It's the simplest and most effective way to keep people on a path that will guide them to a peaceful and comforting death because they "know" one day they'll see their loved ones on the other side.

There's absolutely nothing that could convince my mom the church isn't true. And I wouldn't have it any other way. She knows beyond a shadow of a doubt she'll see my dad again. The fear we are speaking of is used to comfort the majority of religious people. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Do you?
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