Fear God and Fear the Church!!

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Shulem
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Shulem »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:09 pm
There's absolutely nothing that could convince my mom the church isn't true. And I wouldn't have it any other way. She knows beyond a shadow of a doubt she'll see my dad again. The fear we are speaking of is used to comfort the majority of religious people. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Do you?
There is nothing wrong with people having faith and belief within the doctrines of their religion, whether it be Islam, Christian, or any other variety. Religions serve a purpose and people need them. However, I don’t think there is anything wrong with me telling people that there are things about their religion that they don’t need and that they should be open to the possibilities of shifting and making changes in their spiritual beliefs. In other words, I believe it’s important to question our beliefs and to consider the possibility that our faith in a particular tenet may be misplaced or simply wrong.

I think it’s important to spread the message of universal love and spirituality without mixing fear and penalties for failing to measure up to the standards given by a religious institution. Religions have been able to maintain their grip by using fear and intimidation in order to…
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Shulem
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

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Mormonism was originally founded upon principles of spreading fear and threatening nonbelievers with death and destruction if they refuse to bend the knee to Mormonism and submit to its authority. The Church is on record for threatening the lives of everyone who oppose Mormonism by claiming that God will come down and destroy those who disagree and publicly oppose the Church on a doctrinal and spiritual basis. Thus, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is guilty of invoking the idea that an all loving God will come down and murder those who “fight against [Mormon] Zion.” This spirit of death and destruction is alive in the Church today and the Doctrine and Covenants maintain and breathe the same threats as it has since when they were first issued for nearly 200 years. The so-called last days endlessly continue with no end in sight.
Martin Harris, 1831, The Telegraph (Painesville, OH), wrote:“… all who believed the new Bible would see Christ within fifteen years, and all who did not would absolutely be destroyed and dam'd.”
See Mormon Think, Last Days

Fear, threats, murder, and death. THAT is foundational to prophecies of Mormonism for those who oppose the Church and reject its message.
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bill4long
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

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Atlanticmike wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:09 pm
A very large percentage of people find comfort in being told what to do, by people they will probably never meet in person, so they can hopefully one day live again with their love ones in a different realm. Do religions use fear? Yes! It's the simplest and most effective way to keep people on a path that will guide them to a peaceful and comforting death because they "know" one day they'll see their loved ones on the other side.

There's absolutely nothing that could convince my mom the church isn't true. And I wouldn't have it any other way. She knows beyond a shadow of a doubt she'll see my dad again. The fear we are speaking of is used to comfort the majority of religious people. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Do you?
As John Lennon said, "whatever get's ya through the night, is all right, all right."

Humans need their pacifiers, and that's okay with me. I have a few of my own. What is not okay is liars and deceivers selling snake oil when it's obvious that they're selling snake oil, making a profit (in whatever form) from the ignorance and gullibility of their victims.

The guiding principle should be: informed consent. Believe whatever you want. Live and die by whatever religion or philosophy that gets you through the night. I couldn't care less. My beef is with the snake oil salesmen who take advantage of the ignorance of innocent victims. I don't care if we're talking about politicians, "prophets, seers, and revelators" or used car salemen. The lying liars should be resisted and exposed. Period.

--Bill
The views and opinions expressed by Bill4Long could be wrong and are subject to change at any time. Viewer discretion is advised.
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Shulem
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Backyard Professor expounds on how the Church guilts the members

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I express appreciation for the Backyard Professor’s latest video presentation that demonstrates how the Church works hard in keeping people down through repentance. It’s a cycle of constant and perpetual repentance wherein members of the Church are having to go through endless cycles of never being good enough. Living in guilt and fear is part of the cycle of repetitive repentance! The repentance process of Mormonism is a painful and miserable process.

I am so grateful to be OUT of Mormonism and free from the shackles and chains by which it binds one down. How many bishops have abused young men by questioning and harassing them about masturbation? The Backyard Professor tells us that his bishop harassed him when he was only 11 years old. How utterly shameful to hear how Mormon bishops sexually harass boys and girls. This has been a long standing practice in Mormonism and it is shameful and evil.

BYP Responds to Elder Jeffrey Holland, Quorum of Twelve Apostles, 2023 Worldwide Devotional
ZiawliShah
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by ZiawliShah »

I believe that everyone has the right to their faith and the freedom to express their beliefs. However, I also believe that religion should not be used as a means of power and coercion to obey. The church, as an institution, also pursues the pursuit of each person's identity and freedom of religion. I believe that fear of God or the Church should not be a reason to violate liberty and law.
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Shulem
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Shulem »

ZiawliShah wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:32 am
I believe that everyone has the right to their faith and the freedom to express their beliefs.
I agree. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want with regard to God and life on earth.
ZiawliShah wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:32 am
However, I also believe that religion should not be used as a means of power and coercion to obey.
I agree. For example, there are hardline Islamic countries where power and coercion is exercised to force people to comply with religious tenets and unfair restrictions are imposed on everyone based on ideals and preferences of state religion.
ZiawliShah wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:32 am
The church, as an institution, also pursues the pursuit of each person's identity and freedom of religion. I believe that fear of God or the Church should not be a reason to violate liberty and law.
You’ll also agree that nobody enjoys being threatened with punishment for not living up to certain standards mandated by religious practice. More especially, nobody likes being told they will go to hell if they don’t join a certain religion and practice certain rites.
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Shulem
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John Dehlin has a hissy and declares he is sick of the Doctrine & Covenants God!

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THIS really upset John Dehlin and who can blame him?

Mormon Stories John Dehlin is sick of the Doctrine & Covenants God cursing and condemning people

Nobody likes to be abused.
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Shulem
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Re: WHY You are GUILTY

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Shulem
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

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Nemo the Mormon hits a grand slam in exposing the malicious and pernicious designs of the Church which is bent on distilling fear and worry into the hearts of its members.

YouTube 15 minute video:

Do Mormon Leaders REALLY use Fear?

Yes, they do.
Imwashingmypirate
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Re: Fear God and Fear the Church!!

Post by Imwashingmypirate »

Shulem wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:59 pm
The founding principle upon which The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is governed is FEAR. The principle of instilling fear into the hearts and minds of the members of the Church is the overriding factor in keeping order within the Church and maintaining testimony to the brethren who preside over the Church.

Members of the Church will obviously disagree and claim that love through Jesus Christ is the foundation of their Church. But that simply is not true and is not manifest in the Church. You see, Jesus Christ is only the imagination in the mind of each member -- he is not manifest in person. He is in their minds, forever unseen -- pure faith. Each member claims to love Jesus Christ, the person in their mind, the person they think they are feeling through vibration that runs through them which they claim is the Holy Ghost. But it’s only a claim. They can’t prove it or even touch a real Jesus Christ because their testimony is based solely on faith, not by sight. Therefore, when the member says they “KNOW”, they do not really know but think they know because their testimony is based on faith. Has Jesus Christ appeared to them and manifested himself in the flesh? No! Therefore they cannot know unless they can see and have a perfect knowledge.

It is fear that keeps the Church running. It has always been about fear. Fear is what keeps the members in line and toeing that line is required by the leaders who demand total unconditional obedience. Fear God and fear the Church!
I think as a child there was an element of fear that affected my faith but I have a feeling this existed before my parents' conversion to Mormonism. I don't think fear and faith and knowing are related. Society generally instils a "fear of God" element. In fact this was a phrase I heard often growing up (unrelated to church). "He'll put the fear of God into us" meaning (as I perceived it at the time) to be either suicide or murder related. Who knows.

The fear I felt was a fear that I wasn't good enough. That I needed to repent for every thought I had or I was a sinner. That in some way, God and or Jesus wouldn't like me. I wasn't afraid of the Mormon church. The church didn't teach me to fear God but they do talk about fearing God but I don't think they taught it in the same way as I felt it. This fear didn't keep me going to church though.

I feel everyone has different reasons for why they do things. I needed a sanctuary and church provided that. They were my safety in a very rocky time in my life and although I didn't consciously do this, it saved me. I have always felt doubt and confusion and always questioned my faith. I don't think I ever bore my testimony in the same way others did. I did once genuinely bear my testimony and I spoke of my desire to know. I admitted that I always had questions and that I struggled to feel the spirit that everyone talked about and people came up to me and said they felt the same way after.

I think when a member says they know, it is a different definition of the word know. I get what you mean. It's kind of annoying. It's like saying the church is true. It's spieled off without much care or thought to what is being said. But it probably comes from that scripture. Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things but to hope for things which are not seen which are true. Or something like that. I think it's a force of habit.

Jesus is not manifest physically in any Christian religion. I agree that people have individual relationships and visualisations of what they perceive Christ and even God to be. I don't think people vary too much so as to have a completely different version. I don't know Jesus. But we were taught to pray and read scripture to come to know and develop that personal relationship. I don't think it is intended to mean literally know him.
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