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subgenius wrote:no contradiction...re-read OP, it clearly states always taught of JC "himself", which is different than being a witness of JC.
to which i still maintain "always taught"?

Do you believe that they've seen Christ and can witness on his behalf from a position of 'knowing'?
Because that is what I was taught.

Quoting from Mormon Doctrine isn't an official Church reference anymore, hadn't you heard?

jon wrote:

subgenius wrote:no contradiction...re-read OP, it clearly states always taught of JC "himself", which is different than being a witness of JC.
to which i still maintain "always taught"?

Do you believe that they've seen Christ and can witness on his behalf from a position of 'knowing'?
Because that is what I was taught.

Quoting from Mormon Doctrine isn't an official Church reference anymore, hadn't you heard?

Reasons why no LDS apostle will ever see Christ or become a true apostle:
1. They have been partaking of the sacrament unworthily all their lives
2. They received priesthood callings unworthily all their lives.
3. They went to the temple unworthily before their missions.
4. They never repented of the natural man and forsook the world to become true saints. Rather they sought after the excellence of the world and earned the honors of men.
5. None were ever visited of God and wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. Neither do they know how to do this nor do they teach anyone the slightest wisdom in this regard.
6. Before you can be rightly called of Christ and sent in his name unto the nations you must have the gift and power of the Holy Ghost upon you for a while and prove your willingness and determination to hold valiantly to Christ in all hazards of the world and show that you will not be shaken nor removed from the love of God that was put into your inward parts.
7. Since no living LDS GA has qualified up to number six any callings received were presumptuously put upon them and will only bring greater condemnations.
8. It is silly to ask such hypocrisy IF they have seen the Lord. Wont happen. Worlds without end.

Nightlion wrote:
Reasons why no LDS apostle will ever see Christ or become a true apostle:
1. They have been partaking of the sacrament unworthily all their lives
2. They received priesthood callings unworthily all their lives.
3. They went to the temple unworthily before their missions.
4. They never repented of the natural man and forsook the world to become true saints. Rather they sought after the excellence of the world and earned the honors of men.
5. None were ever visited of God and wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. Neither do they know how to do this nor do they teach anyone the slightest wisdom in this regard.
6. Before you can be rightly called of Christ and sent in his name unto the nations you must have the gift and power of the Holy Ghost upon you for a while and prove your willingness and determination to hold valiantly to Christ in all hazards of the world and show that you will not be shaken nor removed from the love of God that was put into your inward parts.
7. Since no living LDS GA has qualified up to number six any callings received were presumptuously put upon them and will only bring greater condemnations.
8. It is silly to ask such hypocrisy IF they have seen the Lord. Wont happen. Worlds without end.

9. Jesus died nearly 2000 years ago. The only way to see him is to go dig up the bones.

Buffalo wrote:....
9. Jesus died nearly 2000 years ago. The only way to see him is to go dig up the bones.

sez you, that is not the only way


Ta daa!

Every time I make a wonderful post of the best thought stuff imaginable the clown wagon unloads and everybody gets soaked. Perhaps just a disguise for Truth Waste Management hosing down the drain all serious considerations.

Nightlion wrote:Every time I make a wonderful post of the best thought stuff imaginable the clown wagon unloads and everybody gets soaked. Perhaps just a disguise for Truth Waste Management hosing down the drain all serious considerations.

While a few of your list would probably be agreeable to some of the more critical posters here, most of them don't resonate because they sound like LDS-Inc-Revisited.

You aren't the target, Nightlion. LDS-Inc is.

Since no living LDS GA has qualified up to number six any callings received were presumptuously put upon them and will only bring greater condemnations.

Do you think Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon saw Jesus Christ? Maybe that's how the term started out, then at some point Jesus stopped appearing personally to those called as apostles.

ajax18 wrote:

Since no living LDS GA has qualified up to number six any callings received were presumptuously put upon them and will only bring greater condemnations.

Do you think Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon saw Jesus Christ? Maybe that's how the term started out, then at some point Jesus stopped appearing personally to those called as apostles.

Yeah... right about the time Fanny showed up.

harmony wrote:

Nightlion wrote:Every time I make a wonderful post of the best thought stuff imaginable the clown wagon unloads and everybody gets soaked. Perhaps just a disguise for Truth Waste Management hosing down the drain all serious considerations.

While a few of your list would probably be agreeable to some of the more critical posters here, most of them don't resonate because they sound like LDS-Inc-Revisited.

You aren't the target, Nightlion. LDS-Inc is.

Has anyone ever noticed my campaign to raise the bar? I have been attempting to get into the cross hairs all along. Would to Gd that I were the target. The TBM wont bite. Critics are, as you say, fixated upon bringing down LDS-inc. I want to engage the world with the truth.

If Joseph Smith's days were backed up a couple of hundred years, he might be much like me today. Wanting to teach the world when all the world only wanted to bring down the authority and domination of the Catholic Church. Am I two hundred years ahead of my time. Rats!

it seems that many consider "witness" with regards to religion as synonymous with "eye-witness", rather than the more literal use of the word which is simply to "provide evidence for" or "to stand as proof of" or "give testimony of". I understand the notion of actual sight, but i have never been instructed that visual affirmation was necessary for an apostle. Has someone been instructed otherwise?