Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

[_just me]

Thanks for catching that DrW. I edited that sentence and obviouslyt botched it. Back to fix it.

Does the story of Arthur Patton crop up in Monsons book 'To the Rescue' I wonder...

Good question. Certainly someone here has a copy and can flip through it for us. There is no preview of it on Google Books, sadly.

[_subgenius]

I have been unable to find this Arthur Patton after many hours of research.
I have looked everywhere I can think of to look and Arthur just doesn't appear in places he should if the story were correct and true.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... |&uidh=000

maybe start here.....down towards the bottom of list

[_just me]

I have been unable to find this Arthur Patton after many hours of research.
I have looked everywhere I can think of to look and Arthur just doesn't appear in places he should if the story were correct and true.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse. ... |&uidh=000

maybe start here.....down towards the bottom of list

Been there, done that. Did you read my long post?

[_just me]

There is a new piece of evidence on Ancestry.com for an Arthur Patton serving from Utah in 1941 with a mother named Teresa Patton.

I will look into that more closely.

[_subgenius]

postscript:

inaccurate does not equate to "a lie"

[_subgenius]

There is a new piece of evidence on Ancestry.com for an Arthur Patton serving from Utah in 1941 with a mother named Teresa Patton.

I will look into that more closely.

perhaps it is worth looking into Kenneth Patten from Payson as well, though he may have been a childhood friend, i am sure we are all assuming he was "originally from" Utah? Not to mention the Teresa and Lee Patton family on the 1930 Utah census (son arthur is listed as 5yo)

Personally, i would give more creedence to the suspicions if TSM had suddenly changed the war in which his friend had died. One has to wonder how many people TSM knew that died in that war, and how many stories he heard of others who had died.....it would seem quite reasonable to mix up similar stories, even with similar meaning, over the course of many decades. I would challenge anyone here to "accurately" convey a story they told 4 decades ago, especially if it had details from such a common event.

The evidence so far = Not enough to cast doubt, the inaccuracies have many possible explanations and none of which would reasonably culminate in the accusation of "liar". Only a person who was predisposed to the accusation would consider it meaningful.

But, if i follow correctly, the argument being proposed is, TSM is a liar and therefore all the GA and CoJCoLDS are liars too. It is concluded that TSM must be a liar because of inconsistencies in some details from story told twice with 4 decades passing between each telling..with none of the questionable details being effectively validated by searching on Google. Since it can not be confirmed by an internet search, it must be a fabrication.....an intentional fabrication.

The diabolical First Presidency is likely to change the genealogical record to affirm their version, are they not?

[_subgenius]

Been there, done that. Did you read my long post?

"your" post...really? (interesting colloquialism for "cut/paste")

so what has come of this?

The 1940 US Federal Census would perhaps give us more definitive answers as there would have to be a "Patton" family living in the Monson neighborhood for the story to work. However, we must wait several more months before that can be consulted.

more definitive answers?

we must wait several months?

whatever do you mean by these two phrases from "your post"

[_jon]

Subgenius, I think what you'll find is that the purpose of the thread is to discuss whether Thomas S Monson told lies in his recounting of the story of one Arthur Patton who he said died in World War II.

If Arthur Patton didn't die in World War II would you accept that Thomas S Monson lied?

[Guest]

Been there, done that. Did you read my long post?

"your" post...really? (interesting colloquialism for "cut/paste")

so what has come of this?

The 1940 US Federal Census would perhaps give us more definitive answers as there would have to be a "Patton" family living in the Monson neighborhood for the story to work. However, we must wait several more months before that can be consulted.

more definitive answers?

we must wait several months?

whatever do you mean by these two phrases from "your post"

Are you saying that you do not believe I wrote that post myself? I cut and pasted it over from my Word program.

The 1940 US Census will not be available to the public until around April 2012. One of the first things I plan to look up is TSM and the Patton family. This census would shed more light on the historical truth of the stories told by TSM in GC.

by the way, when someone has access to their previous talk I see no reason for it to conflict with their new talk. It is very easy to read what one has said on the topic and copy it over into the new talk. TSM referenced the old talk in his new talk. He went so far as to quote some of it word for word. He also referenced a letter from the mother which conflicted with the BOTH stories he gave. He needs to fire his fact checker.

[_just me]

There is a new piece of evidence on Ancestry.com for an Arthur Patton serving from Utah in 1941 with a mother named Teresa Patton.

I will look into that more closely.

perhaps it is worth looking into Kenneth Patten from Payson as well, though he may have been a childhood friend, i am sure we are all assuming he was "originally from" Utah?

I am not assuming that Arthur would have been born in Utah. The story claims that he was a "childhood friend" of Monson which means he would have to live in Salt Lake prior to serving. Based on the story his enlistment would have to be in Salt Lake and he would need to have at least some schooling in Utah. Based on the story Monson watched the mother walk to and from work which leads one to believe they lived on the same street or in the same block/neighborhood.

Not to mention the Teresa and Lee Patton family on the 1930 Utah census (son arthur is listed as 5yo)

This family lived in Chicago, Illinois on the census records I am looking at. Is there a similarly named family also living in Utah? If so, please cite me the census record information (city, page, etc) so I can take a look at it.

Personally, i would give more creedence to the suspicions if TSM had suddenly changed the war in which his friend had died. One has to wonder how many people TSM knew that died in that war, and how many stories he heard of others who had died.....it would seem quite reasonable to mix up similar stories, even with similar meaning, over the course of many decades.
I would challenge anyone here to "accurately" convey a story they told 4 decades ago, especially if it had details from such a common event.

I guess different battles is ok, just not different wars. Ok. He had access to his old talk. He also had access to the mother of the dead friend. He also has access to the best genealogists one could ever hope for. I'm sure he could also get a fact checker just by asking.