Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

[_just me]

stem, there are huge discrepencies between the two stories, including how, when and where Arthur died. This provoked people to do research. Some people really enjoy doing research. This particular story would have been of interest to not only genealogy buffs, but also military buffs.

Were people supposed to pretend they didn't see the massive changes?

[_Nomad]

Why would anyone reading this thread assume that President Monson made this story up? So far all of the evidence suggests that it is substantially accurate.

As just me says, "...because no Arthur Patton could be found on the list of the dead from the National Archives."

Thousands of military personnel in WWII are listed as "missing in action" instead of "dead". If Patton was MIA, he wouldn't appear on the list of the dead. He would be presumed dead, and for naval casualties, that was pretty much a done deal. Lots of infantry MIA's eventually turned up as POW's, but not naval MIA's. So that is a distinct possibility if he's not listed as dead, especially if he shows up on the roster of his last ship on 19 July 1944, but not in October of the same year. Not much chance he transfered to a new ship in the meantime, and if he did that would have almost surely have left a paper trail. From what Nevo says, he doesn't show up on any ship roster after July 1944.

I think it is pathetic that you people are trying to smear President Monson in this way.

[_Nomad]

Some people really enjoy doing research. This particular story would have been of interest to not only genealogy buffs, but also military buffs.

What a joke!

This isn't about history or genealogy hobbyists. It's about anti-mormons looking for something to use to beat up Pres. Monson. Plain and simple.

I think it's a pathetic, sad example of how obsessed exmormons can get in their attempts to slam the church.

[_Morley]

.....

I think it is pathetic that you people are trying to smear President Monson in this way.

I'll ask the same of you. Would you rather that Elder Dunn had not been exposed?

[_just me]

Arthur Patton does not appear on the MIA list or the wounded list for Utah Navy. I checked.

Thus, people have had to do further research.

[_Nomad]

.....

I think it is pathetic that you people are trying to smear President Monson in this way.

I'll ask the same of you. Would you rather that Elder Dunn had not been exposed?

The two situations are not even remotely similar.

[_jon]

Would you rather that Elder Dunn had not been exposed? You can answer: it's not a hypothetical question.

So, seeing as Elder Dunn made up stories then it goes to reason that other LDS leaders have made up stories? Okay, if that's how you see it.

Stem, what do you think of Holland holding up Hyrum's actual Book of Mormon when it wasn't Hrum's actual Book of Mormon?

Now, regardless of motivations and origins of this, Monson has told two different stories. Both about Arthur Patton dying in WWII. That is the only consistent part in relation to the facts.

There is no record of his death in WWII.

Seems odd given the fact that his mother received a telegram, meaning he was officially recorded as dead, yet he doesn't appear on the roles of the WWII casualties.

If Monson has made this up, then he has done a Dunn...so to speak...and should therefore be made emeritus (fired).
You cannot be unaware of the significance of something like that.

Either the facts will eventually check out - in which case you can say "I told you so" (quite rightly) point fingers and call everyone for even daring to think that a Church leader would make a public fib.

Or the facts won't check out - in which case members will need to put another thing on the already overburdened shelf (although in your case it will go in the bin ;-) which is fine, but it's yet another thing that cannot be accommodated into a testimony based on reality).

[_Morley]

I'll ask the same of you. Would you rather that Elder Dunn had not been exposed?

The two situations are not even remotely similar.

Please elaborate.

[_jon]

Thousands of military personnel in WWII are listed as "missing in action" instead of "dead"

..well done Nomad, that's exactly the point, thousands of military personnel in WWII are listed as 'MIA' or 'KIA'.
But not one Arthur Patton...

[_stemelbow]

Sorry, guys. I don't think Pres. Monson had any inkling that the record of his death was missing. Nor that his mother would hear his telling and correct the time of his death, which seems helpful to me. The criticism comes out of convenience, it seems.