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1 Corinthians 15:29

Just north of Corinth was a city named Eleusis. This was the location of a pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. This religion was mention by Homer in Hymn to Demeter 478-79.1 The Corinthians were known to be heavily influenced by other customs. After all, they were in a large economic area where a great many different people frequented. It is probable that the Corinthians were being influenced by the religious practices found at Eleusis where baptism for the dead was practiced.

Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, "...if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say we. This is significant because the Christian church was not practicing baptism for the dead, but the pagans were.

Paul's point was simple. The resurrection is a reality. It is going to happen when Jesus returns. Even the pagans believe in the resurrection, otherwise, why would they baptize for the dead?

Is baptism for the dead really Christian?

Yes. For a variety of reasons not the least of which the Bible teaches that baptism is required for salvation.

Just north of Corinth was a city named Eleusis. This was the location of a pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. This religion was mention by Homer in Hymn to Demeter 478-79.1 The Corinthians were known to be heavily influenced by other customs. After all, they were in a large economic area where a great many different people frequented. It is probable that the Corinthians were being influenced by the religious practices found at Eleusis where baptism for the dead was practiced.

Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, "...if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say we. This is significant because the Christian church was not practicing baptism for the dead, but the pagans were.

Not likely as the early Orthodox Christians believed and practiced this:

"The idea that hearing the gospel and baptism is necessary for the salvation of the righteous dead of pre-Christian times is common . . . ."
Lake, tr., The Apostolic Fathers, 2:263.

The Pastor of Hermas referred to the Apostles being baptized for the righteous dead after preaching to them:

"They were obliged to ascend through water in order that they might be made alive; for, unless they laid aside the deadness of their life, they could not in any other way enter into the kingdom of God. Accordingly, those also who fell asleep received the seal of the Son of God. For," he continued, "before a man bears the name of the Son of God he is dead; but when he receives the seal he lays aside his deadness, and obtains life. The seal, then, is the water: they descend into the water dead, and they arise alive.
The Pastor of Hermas, Sim. 9:16, in ANF 2:49

Jesus taught:

For to that end went I down unto the place of Lazarus, and preached unto the righteous and the prophets, that they might come out of the rest which is below and come up into that which is above; and I poured out upon them with my right hand the water [of] (baptism) . . . of life and forgiveness and salvation from all evil, as I have done unto you and unto them that believe on me.
Epistle of the Apostles, in ANT, 494, brackets in original

The preaching of the gospel to the disembodied spirits (1 Peter 3 and 4) is also well documented by the early Christian fathers.

It seems that the issue of baptism by water being necessary for salvation is one of controversy even still. But I can't help but have to consider what was said in
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,"
2 Corinthians 6:2 For He says: “ In an acceptable time I have heard you, and in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

As christians recognize today, baptism is an outward symbol of an inward change, a REAL change. It's the change through faith that saves you, not the water. It is the Spirit of god that changes us before any ritual, ordinance, or legalism. Baptism is a form of ritual.
Abraham's faith was credited to Him as righteousness
Romans 4:1-5 In verse 2 it sates that although he could boast of his works he could not before God. In verse 3: "For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
And in verse 5 it's clear that the one who is justified, or in other words, declared righteous, is the one who has faith. Who can dwell with God then? Only the the pure in heart, and our hearts are purified by Faith in His Son. See Acts 15:19. If a person who believes is declared righteous, then is he righteous without baptism? Well of course he is.

Is a man who believes in Christ in this life and not baptized go to that lake of fire? If you say no, then baptism is not necessary for salvation. If you say yes, then he is not declared righteous by faith. Therefore it is by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel as indicated by the 3rd article of faith. Galatians 3:5-7
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—
6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
Galatians 2:21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
Galatians 3:21 "Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law."

Overall, the key to understanding this doctrine is the context, and comparing each witness as it is stated in the gospels and the whole of the scripture in the Bible. I would maintain that we do works, and more specifically, baptism, because we love Him, and not because it merits any salvation.

Mormons are Christians.

Mormons perform baptisms for the dead.

Therefore, baptisms for the dead is Christian.

But what you're really trying to say here is that Mormons aren't Christian, right?

Corpsegrinder wrote:Mormons are Christians.

Mormons perform baptisms for the dead.

Therefore, baptisms for the dead is Christian.

But what you're really trying to say here is that Mormons aren't Christian, right?

The FLDS are Mormons.

The FLDS practice polygamy.

Therefore, Mormons practice polygamy.

Yep, I'll buy that.

Aristotle Smith wrote:The FLDS are Mormons.

The FLDS practice polygamy.

Therefore, Mormons practice polygamy.

They do. Mainstream Mormons practice necro-polygamy.

My point, in regards to the OP, is that a debate between Mormons & Evangelicals regarding baptisms for the dead is essentially an exercise in "my-mythology-is-better-than-your-mythology".

Corpsegrinder wrote:Yep, I'll buy that.

They do. Mainstream Mormons practice necro-polygamy.

Sorry, no qualifiers are allowed. Mormons practice polygamy (sans "Mainstream" or "necro"), or you have to take back the original comment.

Otherwise:

Mormons are Christian heretics.

Mormons practice baptism for the dead.

Therefore, Christian heretics practice baptism for the dead.

Choose one, not both.

It seems that the issue of baptism by water being necessary for salvation is one of controversy even still.

Not really. The Bible is quite absolute on the issue. For example:

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 3:21

And as you can see, the early Christians taught the same and knew water baptism is essential for salvation.

And do not think, though you were more pious than all the pious that ever were, but if you be unbaptized, that you shall ever obtain hope. For all the more, on this account, you shall endure the greater punishment, because you have done excellent works not excellently. For well-doing is excellent when it is done as God has commanded. But if you will not be baptized according to His pleasure, you serve your own will and oppose His counsel. But perhaps some one will say, What does it contribute to piety to be baptized with water? In the first place, because you do that which is pleasing to God; and in the second place, being born again to God of water, by reason of fear you change your first generation, which is of lust, and thus you are able to obtain salvation. But otherwise it is impossible. For thus the prophet has sworn to us, saying, "Verily I say to you, Unless ye be regenerated by living water into the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven."
Clementine Homilies 11:25-26, in ANF 8:289-290

Aristotle Smith wrote:Sorry, no qualifiers are allowed.

Sorry, friend. Out here in the real world, qualifiers most certainly are allowed.

So tell me, how is this not an exercise in "my-mythology-is-better-than-your-mythology"?

Corpsegrinder wrote:

Aristotle Smith wrote:Sorry, no qualifiers are allowed.

Sorry, friend. Out here in the real world, qualifiers most certainly are allowed.

OK then, you go with option #2, "Mormons are Christian heretics, Mormons practice baptism for the dead, therefore Christian heretics practice baptism for the dead." My point was (which you obviously didn't grok) was either you allow for qualifiers or you don't. So if you want to add qualifiers to what types of Mormons practice polygamy and how they practice it, then the Christian is allowed to do the same and qualify what kind of Christian practices baptism for the dead. You don't get to play "heads I win, tails you lose."

Corpsegrinder wrote:So tell me, how is this not an exercise in "my-mythology-is-better-than-your-mythology"?

When one thinks one of the options is not mythology. If you really think both Christianity and Mormonism are obviously mythological, why are you wasting your time with all of this?