DiscussMormonism.com

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:24 pm**

I became disaffected with the Church a couple of years ago following some rudeness from a fellow member that offended me. I susbsequently looked for reasons to distance myself from the Church so I went scouring across the internet looking for anything and everything that would aid in justifying myself.

Well, looking back with a softer heart I can see how much my life has changed, not for the better.

I have less money to go around each month despite not paying tithing and having a slightly higher paid job.
I am noticeably less charitable.
I am more irritable around the house and spend less time with my kids.
I swear more.
I drink more than I'd care to admit.
I get headaches from excessive coffee consumption.
I've put weight on.
I now suffer from stress and anxiety.
I have turned into an inconsiderate driver.
I am more prone to arguments.
My blood pressure is up.
I now look at porn and get a slight feelling of not being able to turn it off.

I could go on but I think you get the picture.
My question is about wether or not this misfortune is God's way of humbling me or is it just circumstantial coincidence?

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:02 pm**

I'd say that most of those effects are consequences of engaging in activities that are anathema to active LDS folks. Just because the church isn't true doesn't mean that its teachings won't have a profound effect on your lifestyle if you believe and implement said teachings.

Let's break 'em down:

I have less money to go around each month despite not paying tithing and having a slightly higher paid job.

I can't explain this one.

I am noticeably less charitable.

But you could choose to be as charitable as before if you felt like it, right?

I am more irritable around the house and spend less time with my kids.

But you could choose to A) control your irritability, and B) spend more time with your kids if you wanted to, right?

I swear more.

But you could choose not to swear if you felt like it, right? As for me, I swear far less often now than I did when I was an active believer.

I drink more than I'd care to admit.

But you could choose to drink less if you felt like it, right?

I get headaches from excessive coffee consumption.

But you could choose to drink less coffee if you felt like it, right?

I've put weight on.

Lots of Mormons are overweight, so I don't see how this applies.

I now suffer from stress and anxiety.

This one stumps me, too. Usually the extra day off, the lack of callings, and the 10% raise all lead to less stress and anxiety. The constant quest for perfection and guilt becoming non-factors also lead to less stress and anxiety, I would've thought.

I have turned into an inconsiderate driver.

But you could choose to be a more considerate driver if you felt like it, right?

I am more prone to arguments.

But you could choose to argue less if you felt like it, right?

My blood pressure is up.

This is another one I can't explain.

I now look at porn and get a slight feelling of not being able to turn it off.

But you could choose to try to turn it off if you felt like it, right?

In short, the great majority of these things seem, to me, like voluntary choices on your part rather than some magical way that God is punishing you for leaving the church.

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:11 pm**

Dr. Shades wrote:...
In short, the great majority of these things seem, to me, like voluntary choices on your part rather than some magical way that God is punishing you for leaving the church.

Thinking that God is punishing or disciplining for leaving the church is incorrect. It seems more appropriate to consider that the strength one had while being in the presence of God and His Spirit, as made manifest by being active within the church, is absent now....thus highlighting an inherent weakness to "feel like" choosing otherwise.
I suppose one could feel like choosing to feel good about being less charitable, being grumpy with one's kids, being a rude driver, etc...but that is likely not an option, is it?
To simply fall back on "you could choose otherwise if you felt like it" seems to come awfully close to a universe centered on the self....and by that cause it is likely of no consequence if one is irritable to kids or not, because one would then have to concede that each kid is the center of their own universe - which is a universe one would have no influence on.

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:27 pm**

Drifting wrote:I became disaffected with the Church a couple of years ago following some rudeness from a fellow member that offended me. I susbsequently looked for reasons to distance myself from the Church so I went scouring across the internet looking for anything and everything that would aid in justifying myself.

Well, looking back with a softer heart I can see how much my life has changed, not for the better.
...

i find this part of the post most interesting.

first,
because i hear about many members who leave the church because of another member's offensive act. I often wonder if such a social transgression is a justified cause for one to abandon the Gospel and/or the Church, when clearly neither of these were the actual offenders.
My first impulse is to always wonder why the offense could not be resolved...was the offending party confronted about their behavior? were they immovable from their position? was the victim unable to find forgiveness?
Though i have been offended many times in my own life, there are only a few that have gone unresolved, and for that i consider myself the bearer of that burden...even when i know that i am sincerely due an apology.
If you could expand on your story it would satisfy a curiosity, but i understand if you decline to do so.

second,
because you consider your life to have not gotten better. Is it possible that the offense and subsequent "apostasy" is becoming a valuable learning experience for you? Have your strengths and weaknesses been brought forth to you where before you took them for granted? To, me these are the subtle workings of "forces" greater than ourselves. This is no mere coincidence nor is it mere punishment. It seems likely that it is more of an opportunity.
Personally, i believe there is a value in the church, a value not brought by the one, but by the many. Which is why, to me, the insult of the one will never outweigh the love of the many.
My mother often spoke of a notion that "if you were meant to do it alone, then why the heck is everyone else around here?"

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:20 pm**

Are you pulling our legs?

Drifting wrote:I have less money to go around each month despite not paying tithing and having a slightly higher paid job.

It's from the booze you're buying. Booze can get expensive. Or maybe someone is stealing from you. I recommend you read something from Dave Ramsey.

I am noticeably less charitable.

In what way? What exactly are you doing differently?

I am more irritable around the house and spend less time with my kids.

You've been through a lot. Now you can change it. Take them sledding or to the movies.

I swear more.

So? Who said swearing is a negative thing?

I drink more than I'd care to admit.

Why? Are you trying to escape something?

I get headaches from excessive coffee consumption.

Then stop drinking coffee. Limit yourself to one cup or something. Better yet, switch to green tea or herb tea.

I've put weight on.

Play with your kids. Exercise, even just take a walk every day. Eat fewer calories, make better food choices.

I now suffer from stress and anxiety.

Why? Stop drinking so much coffee. Start meditating. Exercise would also help with this. Oh, and have lots of sex.

I have turned into an inconsiderate driver.

Maybe this is due to your high stress and anxiety levels. Get those down and this should resolve. Or take the bus/carpool.

I am more prone to arguments.

Again, this is probably due to the stress and anxiety. Get those resolved and this should also resolve.

My blood pressure is up.

I think you know what I am going to say here.

I now look at porn and get a slight feelling of not being able to turn it off.

You are possibly using this as another escape method. Again, focus on relieving the stress and anxiety and this will probably not be an issue.

Basically, I think you should start an exercise program, eat better, cut out coffee and try daily meditation. If you do those things and still don't see improvement I recommend talking to your doctor.

(I am not a doctor, I am just a random lady on the internet. This post should not be construed as medical advice. Always consult a qualified physician before you....I can't remember how the rest of the warning should go, but you get the idea.)

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:27 pm**

Yep, Just Me, sort of a leg pull.

I wrote a list of things that various members have told me happened to people they know who have apostatised.

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:30 pm**

Drifting wrote:Yep, Just Me, sort of a leg pull.

I wrote a list of things that various members have told me happened to people they know who have apostatised.

Ahhh, ok! Of course, those people had perfect lives prior to their exit. It only makes sense. ;)

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:52 pm**

just me wrote:
Drifting wrote:Yep, Just Me, sort of a leg pull.

I wrote a list of things that various members have told me happened to people they know who have apostatised.

Ahhh, ok! Of course, those people had perfect lives prior to their exit. It only makes sense. ;)

If I wrote accurately about myself the opposite of most of those statements would be true and the remainder wouldn't apply.

As it stands I can perceive no detrimental consequences from apostasy.

Posted: **Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:44 am**

subgenius wrote:To simply fall back on "you could choose otherwise if you felt like it" seems to come awfully close to a universe centered on the self.

What's wrong with a universe centered on the self? That's probably the way God sees it, if God exists.

. . . and by that cause it is likely of no consequence if one is irritable to kids or not, . . .

I don't see how the one follows the other.

. . . because one would then have to concede that each kid is the center of their own universe . . .

Nothing wrong with that.

. . . which is a universe one would have no influence on.

Why not? Being the "center" of one's own universe doesn't mean that nothing exists beyond the center.

Posted: **Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:04 pm**

Dr. Shades wrote:What's wrong with a universe centered on the self? That's probably the way God sees it, if God exists.

highly unlikely on that being how God sees it. To attribute the same notion of "self" upon God is an obvious fallacy on understanding the nature of God.
as for what is wrong with a "self centered universe"?....hmm, lets see:
1. First read Wuthering Heights
2. reference the word arrogance
3. self-centered requires one to ignore the needs, claims, and feelings of others. (which would contradict any and all rules for this forum)
...wait a sec, such a list would be wasted on any self-centered person who would read it, actually they would likely not read it due to it not being of them-self.

I don't see how the one follows the other.

as in, who cares what the kids feel

Code: Select all

Nothing wrong with that.

except that it is an impossible condition

Why not? Being the "center" of one's own universe doesn't mean that nothing exists beyond the center.

actually it does, that is sort of the meaning of the term.
being at the "center" of the universe is not an actual physical location, but conceptual, as in all things from that. That is to say the universe is only composed of what the "self" is composed of....beyond that there is nothing else.
Ironically satanism, by its heavily promoted definition, relies not upon worshiping the devil, but rather completely on the notion that man is responsible for everything, and doesn’t mislead himself into thinking that someone cares; and that no God can exist independent of man.
philosophically, intellectually, spiritually, and morally the self-centered concept has been time and time again proven as a complete fraud and a detriment to the collective and the individual.
pretty basic stuff

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