That Same Spirit

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Shulem
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That Same Spirit

Post by Shulem »

Twenty-three-year-old Joseph Smith applied his knowledge of the Bible coupled with common theology taught by Protestant churches in order to present a heaven or hell judgment in Book of Mormon doctrine. Smith basically took teachings of his day as understood in the Bible and presented them in his own way to provide other examples to express the same thing. It’s either heaven or hell! You’re saved or damned, period! There is no such thing as repentance in an afterlife. There is no salvation for the dead who rejected Jesus while in mortality. They go to hell, period. That *IS* the message in the Book of Mormon. The doctrine of salvation for the dead or repentance and progression in the hereafter was a later construct that came towards the end of Smith’s ministry. The Book of Mormon contains biblical Protestant teachings only!

Let us examine some Protestant teachings in the Book of Mormon:

Mosiah 2:36-39 wrote:And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do withdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom’s paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved—

I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open rebellion against God; therefore he listeth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in unholy temples.

Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.

And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.

• Smith uses the doctrine of threatening the faithful with hell and damnation if they apostatize
• Withdrawal of the Holy Spirit leads to damnation
• Leaving the Church is to fight against God in open rebellion
• Apostates are subject to the evil spirit (Satan) and become enemies of God
• Failure to repent and to die in sin automatically results in eternal hellfire
• There is absolutely NO mercy for apostates who die in their sin
• The damned in hell will suffer for ever and ever in a state of “never-ending torment”

In other words, the torment will never end for those who reject the gospel of Jesus Christ while in mortality. They are doomed to suffer the wrath of Smith’s eternal God forever and ever. It is therefore written that there will be no end to this torment for it is “never-ending” and flames ascend up “forever and ever”. Wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work FEAR upon the hearts of men in order to keep them in check and from questioning the church and ultimately disagreeing and falling away.

Therefore, the “final doom” of the apostate is to endure a never-ending torment, forever and ever. There is nothing after the final doom other than forever and ever which is a never-ending torment, for it is written, there will be no end to this torment.
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Shulem
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Re: That Same Spirit

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Alma 34:32-35 wrote:For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.

• Mortal life is the time to prepare to meet God and perform the necessary labor
• Procrastination during the light of DAY results in darkness at NIGHT when repentance is no longer possible
• There is no repentance in the afterlife and no work is performed for the dead
• The spirit of the devil possesses those who failed to repent in this life
• The spirit of the devil seals those who failed to repent in his eternal world
• The Spirt of the Lord forever withdraws from the unrepentant
• The final state of those who failed to repent is to be given over to the devil
• There is no other state, the game is over

Indeed, 23-year old Joseph Smith used biblical doctrine and Protestant teachings to produce the content in his Book of Mormon which he felt he needed to proclaim his message. The Book of Mormon doctrine and teachings were exactly what Smith believed. However, later, he amended his teachings and added ordinances to include repentance and salvation for the dead. These later teachings are a direct contradiction to his earlier teachings and prove that Smith was making it all up as he went along.

I bear testimony that I know Joseph Smith was a false prophet. I know it with every fiber of my being.

Amen.
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Re: That Same Spirit

Post by Moksha »

What was the angel with the drawn sword, who was adamant that Joseph have relations with every woman who struck his fancy, based upon? Had there previously been tales of satyrs in the Palmyra woodlands?
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Re: That Same Spirit

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Moksha wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:21 am
What was the angel with the drawn sword, who was adamant that Joseph have relations with every woman who struck his fancy, based upon? Had there previously been tales of satyrs in the Palmyra woodlands?

Let’s examine what the Church has officially published on their website with regard to this incident of an angel with a drawn sword that allegedly threatened to slay Joseph Smith if he refused to marry more women.

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo wrote:When God commands a difficult task, He sometimes sends additional messengers to encourage His people to obey. Consistent with this pattern, Joseph told associates that an angel appeared to him three times between 1834 and 1842 and commanded him to proceed with plural marriage when he hesitated to move forward. During the third and final appearance, the angel came with a drawn sword, threatening Joseph with destruction unless he went forward and obeyed the commandment fully.

Fragmentary evidence suggests that Joseph Smith acted on the angel’s first command by marrying a plural wife, Fanny Alger, in Kirtland, Ohio, in the mid-1830s.

God sometimes sends additional messengers to encourage his people to obey difficult tasks? When is the last time God ever sent “messengers” since the days of Joseph Smith? The canon was closed after Smith died and the heavens remain shut whereby angels no longer minister to men like they did to Smith. The testimony of angels appearing to prophets is a closed affair since Smith’s ministry. There is no such thing as angels manifesting themselves to the Church through modern prophets. That’s a thing of the past and there is no testimony given to credit this belief.

So, we are given to understand that a loving Heavenly Father sent an armed angel to threaten Joseph Smith with death and destruction if he refused to marry more women? This sounds like utter madness to me! I can’t begin to fathom how a loving Father would force his own son to marry more women and his refusal would result in an execution by the very Father who claimed to love him. None of this rings true to my heart and mind. This is not how a loving father treats children. How hardly! I do not believe Smith’s story. I think he’s lying in order to cover up his greedy lust for more sexual gratification. He’s lying about God sending an angel to kill him because he’s embarrassed.

All I know, if an angel were to appear to me with that same mission in mind, I’d tell the evil spirit to depart from me and to never come back!
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Re: That Same Spirit

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D&C 19:6 wrote:Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

Look, Joseph, have you so soon forgotten what you just recently dictated to Oliver about damnation in the Book of Mormon? And now you are tap dancing around the very word “eternal” as if it’s a finite principle? Don’t you understand the difference between infinite and finite? What’s wrong with you, man?

You noted in the Book of Mormon that “the same spirit” which is the devil will take possession of the unrepentant in the “eternal world”. The eternal world is eternal and it never ends. That is the difference between time and eternity -- but apparently, you Joseph, are confused.

D&C 19:7 wrote:Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.

Don’t give me “more express” as some kind of excuse to reduce infinity into a finite size. Eternal damnation is eternal and it lasts forever. You said yourself earlier in the Book of Mormon: “The devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.” A final state is the final state. There is nothing after the final any more than there is something before the beginning. You, Joseph, are confused.

D&C 19:10-12 wrote:For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—

Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.

Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

What is in a name? There is nothing in a name. But there is everything in infinity and only a part or a portion in the finite. If something is eternal or endless than that means it has no end. The fire is NEVER quenched but burns forever. The doctrine of damnation given in the Bible is based on the never ending principle that something never stops.

Joseph Smith’s understanding of these principles as expressed is fatally flawed and totally incorrect. One might also say:

1) Eternal blessings are God’s blessings
2) Endless blessings are God’s blessings

And if those blessings are endless and eternal, they never end. But according to Smith’s faulty reasoning those blessing can have an end and God can cease to be God.
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Re: That Same Spirit

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Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo wrote:Joseph told associates that an angel appeared to him three times between 1834 and 1842 and commanded him to proceed with plural marriage when he hesitated to move forward. During the third and final appearance, the angel came with a drawn sword, threatening Joseph with destruction unless he went forward and obeyed the commandment fully.

So, the punishment for committing a sin of omission is death on the spot? Had Joseph told the angel to tell God that he simply can’t comply with those commands because it goes against his conscience, then can we assume the punishment would be death? Isn’t such punishment reserved for those who commit dreadful sins such as murder? But now we see that refusing to marry more women when you are already married has become a capital offence to the God of Mormonism!

Something is very, very, wrong with this story. It makes no sense and stretches the rule of credibility to the breaking point. It simply is wrong. Joseph Smith was lying.

The truth is, Smith wanted more women. Smith had a great attraction for women as any other healthy heterosexual man would. But Smith couldn’t control his appetites and passions. He had to have more. He knew he had within his power to master several women at the same time and do it under the guise of religious principles practiced by those who lived thousands of years ago.

I do believe that Smith had very strong sexual urges and was unable to control those urges. It was an Achilles’ heel that got the better of him. If only he had learned to control his passions and his temperament he might have survived and lived a fruitful and long life.

This, I believe is an actual daguerreotype photo of Joseph Smith. The only one in existence. Meet Joseph:

Image
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Re: That Same Spirit

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In all fairness and to Joseph Smith’s credit, I do believe he was reluctant to fully accept the idea of the traditional Christian concept of heaven and hell and eternal damnation for those who for whatever reason failed to become Christians. Smith was an innovator and very creative in thinking outside the box. He seems to challenge this theology early on when he gave his D&C 19 revelation. The thought of eternal damnation for good people who fail to convert must have seemed overly harsh. Smith picked up on that. Two years after the Church was organized, Smith introduced D&C 76 to include new doctrine of Three Degrees of Glory. This of course, was a major addition and an improvement to Biblical & Book of Mormon teachings of hellfire and damnation. Smith’s reasoning in this regard was very innovative and brilliantly presented in Section 76. It opened the door and paved the road to new inventions which would later follow, namely salvation for the dead.

I must point out that this new theology of different degrees in heaven is no where found in the Book of Mormon because Smith had not yet thought of it. Had Smith conceived and processed this idea previous to producing the Book of Mormon, these teachings would have been introduced therein. But as it was, Smith wrote the Bible into the Book of Mormon and it wasn’t until afterward that he must have regretted doing so. Nobody knew better how obvious the omission stood out than Smith for having not incorporated these things into the Book of Mormon. I can only imagine that it must have been a sense of regret for him and having to backtrack and find ways to patch things up required more creative imagination on his part.
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Endless Torment

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The Book of Mormon makes it unmistakably clear that if it wasn’t for the infinite atonement of Christ then everyone would suffer in hell with Satan:

“And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself”

Smith introduced the concept of being saved from suffering or being subject to “endless torment” whereby without an atonement there would be nothing short or less than endless torment for those who are cast into hellfire:

“For he delivereth his saints from that awful monster the devil, and death, and hell, and that lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.”

Book of Mormon theology of hellfire is all encompassing whereby it lasts forever. Nothing in the teachings therein lead anyone to suspect that “endless torment” would have an end because God didn’t mean something would last forever when he says it will last forever. When something lasts forever that means it lasts forever. Christianity claims it requires an infinite atonement to save those from the infinite suffering of hell:

“For the atonement satisfieth the demands of his justice upon all those who have not the law given to them, that they are delivered from that awful monster, death and hell, and the devil, and the lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment

At no time in Smith’s evolving doctrines are we led to believe or think that spiritual death, hell, the devil, and the lake of fire and brimstone which is endless torment are temporary punishments for Satan. He cannot be saved, ever! Nothing in Mormon doctrine suggests that Satan’s endless torment will end. Endless is as endless as it ever can be. Scripture teaches that God is endless because he lasts forever. It is written that the joy of God is eternal as is the misery of Satan. Endless on one hand and endless on the other, it is the same -- it NEVER ends!
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Flip-Flop

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FLIP 2 Nephi 28:23 wrote:Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.
Vs.
FLOP 2 Nephi 28:23 wrote:Yea, they are grasped with life, and heaven; and life, and heaven, and God, and all that have been blessed therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of glory and pleasure, which is endless joy.

QUESTION: Is endless ever not endless?
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Flip-Flop

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FLIP Jacob 7:18 wrote:And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been deceived by the power of the devil. And he spake of hell, and of eternity, and of eternal punishment.
Vs.
FLOP Jacob 7:18 wrote:And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been blessed by the power of God. And he spake of heaven, and of eternity, and of eternal reward.


QUESTION: When is eternal not eternal?

ANSWER: When Smith backpedals to find an excuse such as D&C 19:6,7.
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