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In Marvelous Work and A Wonder, Le Grand Richards

Page 18 under the heading John's Testimony of the Personality of God
Says "This accords also with the report of John's baptism of Jesus:
16When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and £He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Here each of the three members of the Godhead are distinctly and separately mentioned; (1) Jesus coming up out of the water; (2) the Holy Ghost descending like a dove; (3) the voice of the Father from heaven expressing his love and approval of his beloved Son. How could one possibly believe these three to be one person without body or form?

President Gordon B. Hinckley explained why he also could not believe in the Trinity: The world wrestles with the question of who God is, and in what form He is found. Some say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. I wonder how they ever arrive at that. How could Jesus have prayed to Himself when he uttered the Lord's Prayer? How could He have net with Himself when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration? No. He is a separate being. God, our Father, is one. Jesus Christ is two. The Holy Ghost is three. And these three are united in purpose and in working together to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.' ONE GOD The above comments are clearly antithetical

Bill McKeever;Eric Johnson. Mormonism 101: Examining the Religion of the Latter-day Saints (Kindle Locations 503-507). Kindle Edition.

James Talmage states: "This [the Trinity] cannot rationally be construed to mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one in substance and person" (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.40)

1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.313
Surely this was not ventriloquism where Christ was speaking to and of himself. It was the Father introducing His Son. In this case, the members of the Holy Trinity manifested themselves, each in a different way, and each was distinct from the others. A similar event occurred on the Mount of Transfiguration when members of the Godhead were distinguished in the presence of Moses and Elias, and Peter, James, and John.

What interesting how above quotes say Trinity teaches God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit our same person, when Creedal Christian teach God The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit our three separate and Distinct persons

E. Calvin Beisner
God in Three Persons

The Christian Church throughout history has found in order to remain faithful to the teachings of the New Testament regarding the person and work of Christ, it had to affirm at least the following doctrines:
The doctrine of the Trinity----that in the nature of the One True God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each fully God, Coequal and Coeternal

When we have said these three things, then—that there is but one God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person—we have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.

We may condense this into a somewhat shorter statement, one which is more precise: In the nature of the God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ( or substance ) of the one true God, there are three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit p
24

“The Nicene Creed, then, with centuries of theological discussion and controversy behind it, still teaches of the Trinity as the New Testament does: that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, while distinct from each other personally, are the same God” p 153

It is this relation of Christ to the Father and the Spirit which Dr John Robinson takes as one of the strong-est indications of triunity in the Godhead:
At the Incarnation… the Godhead is revealed for the first time as existing in three distinct relationships. It is these differences of relation that make necessary a doctrine of the Trinity, not differences of “character” or modes working. The Old Testament, too knew God in different “characters” but it was not forced to a Trinity Theology…We cannot begin with God creating, God redeeming, God sanctifying, or any such collection of attributes, and proceed to identify these with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit…Rather, one must start with the three Persons, no more and no less, which are required by the three relations at the Incarnation
When we have said these three things, then---that there is but one God, that the Father and the son and the spirit is each God, that the Father and the Son and the Spirit is each a distinct person---We have enunciated the doctrine of the Trinity in its completeness.
Page 40

Perhaps the most famous Trinitarian reference from the second century is the statement of Theophilus [ 116-181], another writer who is only shortly removed from the last of the apostles. His is the first use of the word “trinity” in Christian literature which is extant:
In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His Wisdoms.” Vol 2 pp 100 101 Epistles to Autolycus,II WV
Page 53

The concept of Trinity in unity, three distinct persons who are the one God, is then firmly entrenched in Christian thought by the middle to second century
Page 54

Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three Co-herent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are one essence, not one Person, as it is said, “ I and my Father are One “ in respect of unity of substance, not singularity of number. Roberts and Donaldson, anti-Nicene Fathers Vol. 3, p. 621, against Praxeas, xxv
Page 57

The New Testament teaches us that there is one God and that this God is three distinct persons, the Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and that these persons are co-equal and co-eternal. This is also the only possible interpretation of the Nicene Creed as it was intended by its authors. Therefore, the doctrine of the Trinity as taught in the Nicene Creed is an accurate representation of the teachings of the New Testament” pp 155-156

E. Calvin Beisner

Trinity
The doctrine of the Trinity in the godhead includes the three following particulars, viz. (a) There is only one God, one divine nature; (b) but in this divine nature there is the distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as three (subjects or persons); and (c) these three-have equally, and in common with one another, the nature and perfection of supreme divinity. It was the custom in former times for theologians to blend their own speculations and those of others with the statement of the Bible doctrine. It is customary now to exhibit first the simple doctrine of the Bible, and afterwards, in a separate part, the speculations of the learned respecting it.

(from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


TRINITY
The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)


Trinity
used to express the doctrine of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr.
trias
, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)




we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in TRINITY The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the "trinitarian formula" is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14).

(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)




we are not using Biblical language when we define what is expressed by it as the doctrine that there is one only and true God, but in the unity of the Godhead there are three coeternal and coequal Persons, the same in substance but distinct in subsistence. A doctrine so defined can be spoken of as a Biblical doctrine only on the principle that the sense of Scripture is Scripture. And the definition of a Biblical doctrine in such un-Biblical language can be justified only on the principle that it is better to preserve the truth of Scripture than the words of Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity lies in Scripture in solution; when it is crystallized from its solvent it does not cease to be Scriptural, but only comes into clearer view. Or, to speak without figure, the doctrine of the Trinity is given to us in Scripture, not in formulated definition, but in fragmentary allusions; when we assemble the disjecta membra into their organic unity, we are not passing from Scripture, but entering more thoroughly into the meaning of Scripture. We may state the doctrine in technical terms, supplied by philosophical reflection; but the doctrine stated is a genuinely Scriptural doctrine.

(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- being [ all Synonyms ]

for the sake of brevity, as it has thus been lost, the Nicene Creed is not Scripture, scriptural, nor is it Biblical Doctrine or valid Christian Doctrine.
So, as you can plainly see, the LDS Church does not misunderstand it at all.

subgenius wrote:for the sake of brevity, as it has thus been lost, the Nicene Creed is not Scripture, scriptural, nor is it Biblical Doctrine or valid Christian Doctrine.
So, as you can plainly see, the LDS Church does not misunderstand it at all.

Not scriptural...

Mosiah 15 from the Book of Mormon
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.

2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—

3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—

4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

The Nicene Creed of 325 explicitly affirms the co-essential divinity of the Son, applying to him the term "consubstantial". The 381 version speaks of the Holy Spirit as worshipped and glorified with the Father and the Son. The Athanasian Creed describes in much greater detail the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Apostles' Creed makes no explicit statements about the divinity of the Son and the Holy Spirit, but, in the view of many who use it, the doctrine is implicit in it. (Wikipedia quote)

Drifting wrote:Not scriptural...

you are correct...not scriptural....glad to see we finally agree, thanks.

Drifting wrote:

Mosiah 15 from the Book of Mormon
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.

2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—

3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—

4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

The Nicene Creed of 325 explicitly affirms the co-essential divinity of the Son, applying to him the term "consubstantial". The 381 version speaks of the Holy Spirit as worshipped and glorified with the Father and the Son. The Athanasian Creed describes in much greater detail the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Apostles' Creed makes no explicit statements about the divinity of the Son and the Holy Spirit, but, in the view of many who use it, the doctrine is implicit in it. (Wikipedia quote)

And you even go as far as providing justification for your agreement with me...thanks again.
Mosiah 15 speaks well to the dual nature of Christ, not to any creed affiliation with regards to "trinity". - as if affirms that Christ was both divine and mortal. Which, as this is obviously related to Isaiah 53, that notion is reaffirmed.
The verses you cite are clear indications of this idea. Father is a deliberate term in the scriptures as they refer to Christ's divine nature, not his divine identity.
1. Father as literal parent: Heb 12:9; Ether 3:14
2. Father as Creator: Ether 4:7; Mosiah 15:4; Alma 11:38–39
3. Jesus Christ, the Father of those who abide in his gospel: John 17:6–12, 20–24; D&C 9:1; 25:1; 34:3; 121:7
4. Jesus Christ, the Father by divine investiture of authority: John 14:28; Rev. 22:8, 9; D&C 93:21

“And that I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one-The Father because he gave me of his fulness, and the Son because I was in the world and made flesh my tabernacle, and dwelt among the sons of men” - D&C 93:3–4

Hey subby, seeing as how you can make, quite literally anything, reinforce your beliefs...

Is Adam/Michael part of the Mormon version of the Godhead?

4 And the Gods came down and formed these the generations of the heavens and of the earth, when they were formed in the day that the Gods formed the earth and the heavens,Abraham 5

Is the Godhead going to expand as and when us humans achieve God status?

Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:
1.They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62).

2.They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23).Gospel Principles

When Mormon leaders talk of things like ventriloquism it is clear that the do not understand the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

Zechariah 12:10 Jehovah speaking: "I will pour upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and of supplications, and they shall look upon ME whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for HIM as one mourneth for his Son, and shall be in bitterness for him as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." All in one verse, changes from I to ME, to HIM.

Joseph Smith Jt taught the Trinity till at least 1835

2 Nephi 31:
21And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Alma 11:
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


Mormon 7:
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

The Testimony of Three Witnesses
And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

Doctrine and Covenants 20 :
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

http://eom.BYU.edu/index.php/Lectures_on_Faith

Lectures on Faith
Lecture Five 2. There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things, by whom all things were created and made…. They are the Father and the Son: the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fulness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, is a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, being in the form and likeness of man, or rather man was formed after his likeness and in his image. He is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father, possessing all the fulness of the Father, or the same fulness with the Father;

Lectures on Faith
Lecture Five 2. There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things, by whom all things were created and made…. They are the Father and the Son: the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fulness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, is a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, being in the form and likeness of man, or rather man was formed after his likeness and in his image. He is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father, possessing all the fulness of the Father, or the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name. He is called the Son because of the flesh…possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit that bears record of the Father and the Son. These three are one; or, in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things. Q & A 15. Do the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute the Godhead? They do.

notice how God the Father is personage of spirit and Jesus a personage of tabernacle, this comes before 1 out of the 9 first visions was adopted

Joseph Fielding Smith admitted that Joseph Smith helped prepare these lectures: "Now the Prophet did know something about these Lectures on Faith, because he helped to prepare them, and he helped also to revise these lectures before they were published ..." (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p. 195).

These Lectures on Faith were printed in all of the early editions of the Doctrine and Covenants, but in 1921 they were completely removed and have not appeared in subsequent editions. John William Fitzgerald, who wrote his thesis at BYU, asked Joseph Fielding Smith why they were removed from the Doctrine and Covenants. One of the reasons given was that they were not complete as to their teachings regarding the Godhead. Actually, these lectures were considered complete with regard to their teachings concerning the Godhead at the time they were given. On page 58 of the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants the following question and answer appear: "Q. Does the foregoing account of the Godhead lay a sure foundation for the exercise of faith in him unto life and salvation? A. It does."