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Women, LDS Church, and "Chivalrous Contempt"

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:21 pm
by _Gaia
Hi Everyone -

Previously and in another topic,
( See http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... =1&t=27013) Jo said:

" It is sad that our world resists Jesus' revolutionary teachings He revealed while in the flesh. In fact, many of those teachings have been purposely hidden from the world by the jealous men who were not able to accept what Jesus was teaching...."


IN response to Jo's comments, and as as a second 'installment' of the "Women and Priestesshood" double-feature :wink: , I'd like to offer the following excerpt from an article entitled, "Mormonism's Odd Couple: The Motherhood-Priesthood Connection" by Sonja Farnsworth, in "Women and Authority", edited by Maxine Hanks.]



LDS 'Chivalrous Contempt' of Women


And the LDS "Odd Couple"

(NOTE:


In the post-WWII era, when the trend of "ultra domesticity" refocused intensely upon the domestic scene, the reputation of this ideal woman was celebrated at a fever pitch, creating what author Sylvia Ann Hewlett called "the most powerful Cult of Motherhood ever seen."

Descriptions of this new exaggerated mother bordered on the mythical and deific. Since the centuries-old concept of the domestic priestess had been a perfect launching place for post-war obsession with "ultra domesticity", the two ideals had merged easily, forming a fashionable, new super-matriarch.

Though her pedigree was secular, she seemed ethereal enough for [conservative Christians] and LDS (Mormons), bathed in the glow of both trend and tradition. Certainly she was a flourishing influence in the early 1950's when LDS leaders settled on a definition of motherhood as a gift "equal in magnitude" to Priesthood –- [and when, coincidentally, many current LDS leaders were growing up and forming their ideas about women and women’s roles].

One can easily see how the LDS Church, needing something to replace the fading vision of Joseph Smith of woman as QUEEN And PRIESTESS, mistook this conveniently submissive impostor for its own.

Thus, Mormonism found a way of excluding the priestess while *seeming* to include her.

This gave birth to Mormonism's oppressively domestic and popularly conceived model of woman-hood -- the "domestic goddess" known as "Molly Mormon" and "Patti Perfect."

Today few LDS challenge the partnership of motherhood and priesthood, although the Standard Works say virtually NOTHING about it. OTOH, the temple ceremony refers to women NOT as "wives and mothers", but as QUEENS and PRIESTESSES.

In creating the Relief Society, Joseph Smith organized it to be self-directed, saying it should "move according to the ancient priesthood" and adding that he would "make of this society a kingdom of priests."
The effect of his words expanded women's views of their spiritual and ecclesiastical power. Their documented participation in prophesying, healing and blessing the sick emphasized their priestly duties ....

However (and sadly!), after Joseph died, his generous descriptions of what women *had* -- as "Queens and Priestesses" in the Kingdom of God -- were replaced by limiting pedestals labelled "wife and mother" -- or "Molly Mormon" and "Patti Perfect".

The result appears to have been a complete reversal of God's intentions.


"So what does it mean that the modern LDS church has forsaken Joseph Smith's view of women as 'QUEENS and PRIESTESSES" for the secular view of women as "domestic goddesses"?

-- It means that the "plain and precious truth" of motherhood as a simple but authentic partnership with * fathers*, has been buried in the perennial rhetoric about a "partnership with God", which is revived whenever traditional views of women are challenged.

While this rhetoric seems to protect female needs, in reality it has protected male authority and denied women what is properly theirs.

This rhetoric points to church leaders seemingly unaware that they have been influenced by "the philosophies of men mingled with scripture" -- the notion of women as domestic goddesses is SECULAR, NOT SACRED.

It is sadly ironic that even as feminism has alerted us to women's equality with men, the expanded vision of womanhood revealed by Joseph Smith has been resisted and diminished by his own followers.
Mormon women, despite their rich tradition of the Priestess, have lost much through the teaching that motherhood and priesthood are a “sacred marriage” of complementary spiritual roles.

There will be much to gain if Mormons realize that this union is really a SECULAR "marriage of convenience", and that motherhood and priesthood are "an odd couple, nurturing a passel of illegitimate theological ideas.”


~Gaia

Re: Women, LDS Church, and "Chivalrous Contempt"

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:06 pm
by _jo1952
Wow, Gaia!

Remember what I said about some belief Traditions and Mary Magdelene being the most important Apostle? Those Traditions also believe that she called female disciples and apostles to help spread the Gospel message to women -- sounds like Joseph Smith's ideas about the Relief Society, doesn't it?

There is a major "type" for this relationship between man and woman given through the story of Adam and Eve. Eve was NOT made from the dust of the earth as Adam was; she was made from a part that came from Adam. This is a "type" for things in the spiritual realm; showing both the masculine and feminine aspects of God.

Along comes Jesus, a Son of God in the flesh, who teaches deeper Truth to the Apostles. He is the example to be followed. He married Mary Magdelene to illustrate and manifest the importance of both masculine and feminine becoming one in the flesh, because they are one in the spirit realm---manifesting as Father, Mother, and Son (or daughter) as they exist in God in the Kingdom of God. But man rejects this teaching and delegates woman to lesser importance.

Along comes Joseph Smith who Restores Jesus' teachings of the deeper Truth about the temporal relationship between man and woman as an example of what exists in the spirit realm and in the Kingdom of God. But man once again rejects this teaching and delegates woman to lesser importance.

Now, consider how reincarnation assists the individual spirit in their progression to unity and oneness with God. However, since the flesh has rejected more than once what God has taught us about the masculine and feminine to be one, see how confused the sexes are today even moreso than in the past. Are we not witnessing how the sins of the fathers are being wrought upon generations of sons and daughters? Even more sad to see is how the issue of homosexuality has actually become a thorn in the side of the Church. Have the churches (such as the RCC and the LDS and others) through their abandonment of Christ's teachings taught in the ancient church and then Restored through Joseph Smith but abandoned, helped bring this upon the earth?

Interesting, yes?

And STILL God's purposes will be accomplished through our keeping the two Great Commandments. We are to love others as we love ourselves; regardless! And if we do not love others, then we simply do not love God. I have loved others regardless of their sexual orientation; but then made to feel guilty because the Church will not accept the practicing homosexual. How ridiculous that I should even appear to manifest anything akin to withholding something from others which I desire to have by supporting the LDS Church in their stance. I cannot do it. No matter where we are in our journey, God knows the intent of our hearts and the purity of our motives.

Blessings,

jo

Re: Women, LDS Church, and "Chivalrous Contempt"

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:13 am
by _moksha
I wonder if all this stems from women not accepting battle field commissions during the Heaven War?

Re: Women, LDS Church, and "Chivalrous Contempt"

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:44 pm
by _jo1952
moksha wrote:I wonder if all this stems from women not accepting battle field commissions during the Heaven War?


You'll need to clarify the rank, duty, and authority allotted to those battlefield commissions before I can offer a worthwhile answer....

Blessings,

jo

Re: Women, LDS Church, and "Chivalrous Contempt"

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:57 am
by _bcspace
This gave birth to Mormonism's oppressively domestic and popularly conceived model of woman-hood -- the "domestic goddess" known as "Molly Mormon" and "Patti Perfect."


There is no evidence of this.

However (and sadly!), after Joseph died, his generous descriptions of what women *had* -- as "Queens and Priestesses" in the Kingdom of God -- were replaced by limiting pedestals labelled "wife and mother" -- or "Molly Mormon" and "Patti Perfect".


Or this.

Re: Women, LDS Church, and "Chivalrous Contempt"

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:17 pm
by _Albion
Or this....."...he married Mary Magdelene...." But do I really want to reopen this heretical can of worms yet again?

Re: Women, LDS Church, and "Chivalrous Contempt"

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:53 pm
by _jo1952
This gave birth to Mormonism's oppressively domestic and popularly conceived model of woman-hood -- the "domestic goddess" known as "Molly Mormon" and "Patti Perfect."


bcspace wrote:There is no evidence of this.


However (and sadly!), after Joseph died, his generous descriptions of what women *had* -- as "Queens and Priestesses" in the Kingdom of God -- were replaced by limiting pedestals labelled "wife and mother" -- or "Molly Mormon" and "Patti Perfect".


bcspace wrote:Or this.


That is because you are still blind to it. But we are all still blind to various parts of All Truth. The very nature of blindness prevents us from seeing that we are blind until the Truth about that particular blindness is revealed to us.

Blessings,

jo

Re: Women, LDS Church, and "Chivalrous Contempt"

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:45 am
by _zeezrom
I prefer QUEENS, PRIESTS, and GODS for the women. Joseph Smith almost had it.

;)

Re: Women, LDS Church, and "Chivalrous Contempt"

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:21 am
by _bcspace
I think the natural man has always preferred a Stepford Wife.

:twisted:

But I also think the notion of what is domesticity changed post WWII (or even earlier) so I don't think anything negative can be pinned on the Church.

Re: Women, LDS Church, and "Chivalrous Contempt"

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:51 pm
by _Yoda
bcspace wrote:
This gave birth to Mormonism's oppressively domestic and popularly conceived model of woman-hood -- the "domestic goddess" known as "Molly Mormon" and "Patti Perfect."


There is no evidence of this.

However (and sadly!), after Joseph died, his generous descriptions of what women *had* -- as "Queens and Priestesses" in the Kingdom of God -- were replaced by limiting pedestals labelled "wife and mother" -- or "Molly Mormon" and "Patti Perfect".


Or this.

The evidence lies in how the Relief Society organized by Joseph Smith differs from the Relief Society organization of today.

I do see baby steps, however, beginning to take place as far as women being given the opportunity to hold leadership positions equal to men.

With the change in missionary age, and the growth of sister missionaries, there is already talk among the brethren of allowing sister missionaries to hold positions such as Zone Leaders, AP's, etc., in the mission field.