DiscussMormonism.com

Hello Watcher!

I am very much enjoying what you are sharing. You have done so much research; it's great to be directed so easily to the historical documentation you are providing.

I believe that just as all scripture reveals more and more layers of understanding the more awakened our spirit becomes, that discernment of Truth versus what is not Truth becomes more easy. This is also related to our blindness; inasmuch as we simply will not be able to see or hear more parts of Truth until we are ready.

I am not fearful of finding Truth regardless of how it may be shrouded by the actions and choices of man. God's Prophets are not perfect; they are extremely fallable. To uncover their errors do not sway me from my desire to continue to seek Truth wherever I can find it. I am still able to recognize whatever Truth I am ready to see. What you are providing is fascinating to me and confirms what I have been becoming aware of.

I do not think we have had a True Prophet in the Church since the time of Joseph Smith and the earliest individuals called to serve in the Restoration. However, I do believe that there have been inspired leaders. The LDS Church still teaches more Truth than other organized religious institutions. Many of the active members of the Church are practicing the two great commandments. It is a good place to find refuge. It was through the teachings of the Church encouraging us to become familiar with the Holy Spirit which have allowed me to at last get beyond just the milk. It is in recognizing the Spirit's promptings and guidance which have helped my spirit to begin some serious awakening.

This has brought me to a crossroad. Whereas I can now see that the Church has strayed, I also see that there are not many other choices for where an individual can go to receive higher teachings.

There is a huge Spiritual awareness taking place on the earth....in all religions and in non-religions.....in believers and in non-believers. The Holy Spirit is guiding us --- and where I am guided is where I will go. For several months, since the Spirit has been revealing so much more to me, I have sought like-minded individuals; while still remaining in the LDS Church. Some of those individuals are in the LDS Church; they are also being led to seek higher teachings and understandings as their spirits awaken.

The Internet is a great place to find others who are recognizing a more mystic and gnostic (NOT orthodoxy's version of gnostic) level of understanding our Supernal Heavenly Father. Many oral belief Traditions which have remained hidden within other churches (especially within the RCC) have felt safe enough to come out of hiding. Their beliefs match so much of what has been uncovered in recent times; such as the Nag Hammadi Library, the Dead Sea Scrolls, individual manuscripts being discovered in ancient church buildings.

I have been searching several sources of Joseph Smith's writings, and am finding that he was also aware of the teachings held within these discoveries which took place after he lived.

So....where does an individual go to learn more? Of course, we have the Holy Spirit to guide us to Truth, and to help us recognize Truth, and to reveal Truth to us. But finding True Apostles to also help us is much more difficult. Fortunately, there ARE Holy Men---though they do not seem to be plentiful at this time. I believe there are many more seekers just like me who are in the LDS Church. We stay in the Church because our options are not many. Inasmuch as I believe the Church is going to be divided and torn....though not defeated....in the near future, perhaps we will be alive when Father determines that the time for the Church to repent has arrived. Perhaps those who have gotten closer to overcoming and whose spirits are close to being born of the Spirit, will be asked to serve God's purposes during that time of great trial and tribulation within the Church.

It seems ironic that it is the Church that taught me to always seek the guidance of the Holy Ghost, and to always be seeking for Truth. The Truth now being revealed to me is showing me how the Church has strayed.

Thank you very much for your dedication and for the information you are sharing on this thread. I look forward to more of your offerings.

Shalom,

jo

Jo-

i was amazed to read your words as it is very similar to how i feel and write. I actually kept almost predicting your next phrase as i was reading, so close some of what you say is to my convictions.

Fusion

Fusion: Thank you for your effort to understand. I think that Mormons and Christians have a different understanding and use of the term "gospel". To Mormons it means just about everything they believe...the church, the temple, priesthood, the whole bag of tricks. Christians define gospel in much simpler terms...the good news of salvation (full and complete rather than just resurrection) in and through Christ's death and resurrection. These are the essential of Christian doctrine that bind Christian believers together. Because Christ died and purchased our redemption we can have relationship with him and live lives walking in the Spirit.

Watcher: I suspected you were not confining yourself to a real Bible but were using other sources to expand what the Bible verse actually said. Thanks for the clarification.

Fusion wrote:Jo-

i was amazed to read your words as it is very similar to how i feel and write. I actually kept almost predicting your next phrase as i was reading, so close some of what you say is to my convictions.

Fusion

Hello Fusion,

I am at a point now where all I desire is to be able to share what is being revealed to me, and have others share what is being revealed to them, in order that we can edify one another and rejoice! Man's ideas about God are not actually God. Praise God for sending Yeshua to suffer and die for us, and show us the Way. Praise God for the Holy Spirit who leads us in our journey.

Blessings to you.

jo

Albion wrote:Fusion: Thank you for your effort to understand. I think that Mormons and Christians have a different understanding and use of the term "gospel". To Mormons it means just about everything they believe...the church, the temple, priesthood, the whole bag of tricks. Christians define gospel in much simpler terms...the good news of salvation (full and complete rather than just resurrection) in and through Christ's death and resurrection. These are the essential of Christian doctrine that bind Christian believers together. Because Christ died and purchased our redemption we can have relationship with him and live lives walking in the Spirit.

Albion and other skeptics of the INTENT of the Mormon Religion and Joseph Smith the Prophet, Seer and Revelator for Christ in these last days,

Albion – you are right. The LDS members today do worship a “different” “Christ” and have a different understanding of the “gospel” than did the early Saints of the Restoration and certainly Joseph Smith.

As you may or may not know, the Lord placed the WHOLE [LDS] Church under Condemnation as early as 1832 (see D&C 84). That entire section presents a type and shadow from Ancient Israel and shows how Latter-day Israel was/is literally repeating history by Provoking the Lord’s anger because they wanted to save themselves rather than trust in God (Romans 10: 1-3). We were placed under condemnation for not believing Christ and His Word unto us – not accepting the New Covenant. We are now, thus, wandering in the wilderness unbeknownst to most – but known by some.

Those who truly know and understand the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants know that these are two of the most “Born Again Christian” books in the entire world.

Joseph’s message was different than “biblical” “mainstream” Christianity. He was teaching or trying to teach about the New Covenant of Christ, indeed about the DIVINITY within each person and our true and very real literal connection with God. He was trying to teach that we are all part of God and than God Himself redeemed ALL mankind who would just receive Him. Jesus IS the Way, Truth and THE Life.

But Joseph faced the same troubles and resistance that Paul did anciently. Joseph faced the same rejection that Moses did anciently when he brought the children of Israel out of Egypt that they could see the face of God and have a very, personal relationship with God. Section 84 describes what happened then and what was repeated with the LDS Church.

Today, most Mormons worship THE LAW rather than worship Jesus Christ. The Law (or Commandments) have become God to them – not the pure and unconditional love of Jesus Christ.

So, Albion, you said that the Mormons have a different understanding of what “the Gospel” is than Christians – today that is true. But that is NOT what Joseph Smith taught or what the Lord taught through Joseph Smith. Read for yourself the following scriptures:

What is the real definition of Christ’s church?

D&C 10:

67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.

68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

What is the TRUE definition of “THE GOSPEL”?

D&C 76:

40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—

41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.

D&C 33:

12 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and remember that they shall have faith in me or they can in nowise be saved;

13 And upon this rock I will build my church; yea, upon this rock ye are built, and if ye continue, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Moroni 6: 4 …..relying alone upon the merits of Christ, who was the author and the finisher of their faith.

D&C 39: 6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.

3 Nephi 27:

13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—

15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.

16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

But Latter-day Saints just couldn’t “rely alone” upon Christ – just like the ancient Jews and most Christians today – and so they wanted more laws, more governance, more direction, more rules in order to make themselves “more holy”. And modern Christians also don’t believe in the PURE LOVE OF CHRIST and His power to SAVE ALL – even those “heathens” who have never heard of Christ – even though EVERY land has “the law” given and ALL know good from evil. Modern Christians don’t believe that Christ has REMOVED ALL SIN from the world and PURIFIED ALL through God’s Personal Atonement. They say everyone is damned who doesn’t accept Christ or who doesn’t know about Jesus. HOGWASH!!!

We are all here for experience – in a school of darkness – to experience the opposite of what we are – PART OF GOD – individualizations of God – here to glorify God and through choice, exalt our own portion of God. We are all beings of Light – eternally connected with God and we could never realize what we truly are without coming here to experience the opposite of what we truly are. This is why Joseph taught in D&C 93 that the Lord gave us these revelations in D&C 88 and 93 so that we could understand WHO AND WHAT WE WORSHIP.

Note below how all Christians, including Latter-day Saints perfectly match what occurred in Ancient Israel – rejecting the New covenant and setting themselves up as their own god and making their own efforts to earn salvation their own idols:

D&C 1:

15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth fold and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall.

Jacob 4: 14 But behold, the Jews [i.e. Latter-day Saints and christians] were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark [the pure unconditional love of Christ] , they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.

Romans 10:

1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

God gave us the laws and commandments to teach us that NO ONE can live the law perfectly and that we ALL need Jesus Christ and that we must trust ONLY in God’s merits. He gave us weaknesses (Ether 12:27) that we would be humble and seek out Him. This occurs in ALL faiths. All faiths have their own Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Yet there is only ONE Tree of Life – God’s pure, perfect, unconditional Love. Ultimately – the ONLY commandment Jesus really gave us that he expects us to keep was “that ye love one another”. Every other law and commandment has one purpose – to break our egos and bring us to a broken heart and contrite spirit where we seek HIM out.

From the Book of Mormon, Jesus says:

3 Nephi 15: 9 Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life

You see – Lehi and Nephi and Joseph Smith were trying to teach that salvation doesn’t come by “the law” or the commandments – that it’s FREE for everyone – even Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc… There is TRUTH in ALL religions and we are ALL connected. Jesus SAVED ALL. The Christians in Joseph Smith’s day and TODAY teach that ALL ARE DAMNED if they don’t know about Jesus, but it’s by that teaching that we “perish from that which is good”. What is “good” – a person’s REAL INTENT and only God’s Love – Charity – which is the ONLY thing that will not fail!!!!

2 Nephi 2:

4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.

5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.

6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.

7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.

8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

Yes – it may take a few mortal probations or many to understand this and to experience this – but our loving FATHER will do EVERYTHING for us so that ALL of us will choose to receive HIS LOVING GIFT at some point.

If the following LAST VERSES – the PARTING message of the Book of Mormon doesn’t describe what Born Again Christians claim to believe, then any critic of Joseph Smith and the TRUE Mormon DOCTRINE – are speaking out of ignorance.

Moroni 10: [The New Covenant of Jesus Christ]

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.


Praise be to God! Praise to the man – Joseph Smith – who understood this and who sacrificed his life to bring this knowledge forth.

I hope and pray that one day ALL latter-day Saints and Christians will realize just what God has really done for all of us and realize that ALL of us are already Redeemed and Saved and Exalted – all we have to do is receive it.

Watcher wrote:
I shall resume my previous posture of just offering secretive historical issues for those who are actually interested in the topic of the thread

Watcher, please do resume. Your point of view on the historical issues that create stumbling blocks for some and yet can be a testimony builder to others after doing some digging to get to the truth is a concept that I have been experiencing for a number of months now. You are far ahead of me in that regard but I appreciate your posts immensely and do hope that you will continue.

Tree of Life wrote:
Albion and other skeptics of the INTENT of the Mormon Religion and Joseph Smith the Prophet, Seer and Revelator for Christ in these last days,

Albion – you are right. The LDS members today do worship a “different” “Christ” and have a different understanding of the “gospel” than did the early Saints of the Restoration and certainly Joseph Smith.

As you may or may not know, the Lord placed the WHOLE [LDS] Church under Condemnation as early as 1832 (see D&C 84). That entire section presents a type and shadow from Ancient Israel and shows how Latter-day Israel was/is literally repeating history by Provoking the Lord’s anger because they wanted to save themselves rather than trust in God (Romans 10: 1-3). We were placed under condemnation for not believing Christ and His Word unto us – not accepting the New Covenant. We are now, thus, wandering in the wilderness unbeknownst to most – but known by some.

Those who truly know and understand the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants know that these are two of the most “Born Again Christian” books in the entire world.

Joseph’s message was different than “biblical” “mainstream” Christianity. He was teaching or trying to teach about the New Covenant of Christ, indeed about the DIVINITY within each person and our true and very real literal connection with God. He was trying to teach that we are all part of God and than God Himself redeemed ALL mankind who would just receive Him. Jesus IS the Way, Truth and THE Life.

But Joseph faced the same troubles and resistance that Paul did anciently. Joseph faced the same rejection that Moses did anciently when he brought the children of Israel out of Egypt that they could see the face of God and have a very, personal relationship with God. Section 84 describes what happened then and what was repeated with the LDS Church.

Today, most Mormons worship THE LAW rather than worship Jesus Christ. The Law (or Commandments) have become God to them – not the pure and unconditional love of Jesus Christ.

So, Albion, you said that the Mormons have a different understanding of what “the Gospel” is than Christians – today that is true. But that is NOT what Joseph Smith taught or what the Lord taught through Joseph Smith. Read for yourself the following scriptures:

What is the real definition of Christ’s church?

D&C 10:

67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.

68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

What is the TRUE definition of “THE GOSPEL”?

D&C 76:

40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—

41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.

D&C 33:

12 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and remember that they shall have faith in me or they can in nowise be saved;

13 And upon this rock I will build my church; yea, upon this rock ye are built, and if ye continue, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.

Moroni 6: 4 …..relying alone upon the merits of Christ, who was the author and the finisher of their faith.

D&C 39: 6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.

3 Nephi 27:

13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—

15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.

16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

But Latter-day Saints just couldn’t “rely alone” upon Christ – just like the ancient Jews and most Christians today – and so they wanted more laws, more governance, more direction, more rules in order to make themselves “more holy”. And modern Christians also don’t believe in the PURE LOVE OF CHRIST and His power to SAVE ALL – even those “heathens” who have never heard of Christ – even though EVERY land has “the law” given and ALL know good from evil. Modern Christians don’t believe that Christ has REMOVED ALL SIN from the world and PURIFIED ALL through God’s Personal Atonement. They say everyone is damned who doesn’t accept Christ or who doesn’t know about Jesus. HOGWASH!!!

We are all here for experience – in a school of darkness – to experience the opposite of what we are – PART OF GOD – individualizations of God – here to glorify God and through choice, exalt our own portion of God. We are all beings of Light – eternally connected with God and we could never realize what we truly are without coming here to experience the opposite of what we truly are. This is why Joseph taught in D&C 93 that the Lord gave us these revelations in D&C 88 and 93 so that we could understand WHO AND WHAT WE WORSHIP.

Note below how all Christians, including Latter-day Saints perfectly match what occurred in Ancient Israel – rejecting the New covenant and setting themselves up as their own god and making their own efforts to earn salvation their own idols:

D&C 1:

15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth fold and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall.

Jacob 4: 14 But behold, the Jews [i.e. Latter-day Saints and christians] were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark [the pure unconditional love of Christ] , they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.

Romans 10:

1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

God gave us the laws and commandments to teach us that NO ONE can live the law perfectly and that we ALL need Jesus Christ and that we must trust ONLY in God’s merits. He gave us weaknesses (Ether 12:27) that we would be humble and seek out Him. This occurs in ALL faiths. All faiths have their own Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Yet there is only ONE Tree of Life – God’s pure, perfect, unconditional Love. Ultimately – the ONLY commandment Jesus really gave us that he expects us to keep was “that ye love one another”. Every other law and commandment has one purpose – to break our egos and bring us to a broken heart and contrite spirit where we seek HIM out.

From the Book of Mormon, Jesus says:

3 Nephi 15: 9 Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life

You see – Lehi and Nephi and Joseph Smith were trying to teach that salvation doesn’t come by “the law” or the commandments – that it’s FREE for everyone – even Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc… There is TRUTH in ALL religions and we are ALL connected. Jesus SAVED ALL. The Christians in Joseph Smith’s day and TODAY teach that ALL ARE DAMNED if they don’t know about Jesus, but it’s by that teaching that we “perish from that which is good”. What is “good” – a person’s REAL INTENT and only God’s Love – Charity – which is the ONLY thing that will not fail!!!!

2 Nephi 2:

4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.

5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.

6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.

7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.

8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

Yes – it may take a few mortal probations or many to understand this and to experience this – but our loving FATHER will do EVERYTHING for us so that ALL of us will choose to receive HIS LOVING GIFT at some point.

If the following LAST VERSES – the PARTING message of the Book of Mormon doesn’t describe what Born Again Christians claim to believe, then any critic of Joseph Smith and the TRUE Mormon DOCTRINE – are speaking out of ignorance.

Moroni 10: [The New Covenant of Jesus Christ]

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.


Praise be to God! Praise to the man – Joseph Smith – who understood this and who sacrificed his life to bring this knowledge forth.

I hope and pray that one day ALL latter-day Saints and Christians will realize just what God has really done for all of us and realize that ALL of us are already Redeemed and Saved and Exalted – all we have to do is receive it.

Dear Tree of Life,

Hallelujah! Another awakening spirit! You have me weeping for joy; my cup overflows! Praise Yeshua for opening the Heavens to us! Indeed, may we have the eyes to see and the ears to hear so that we may enter what already exists. Until we know and love ourselves and others, thus loving God, we cannot know God or see Him and enjoy our unity with Him as the individuated spirit sons and daughters we are.

Shalom,

jo

GR33N wrote:Watcher, please do resume. Your point of view on the historical issues that create stumbling blocks for some and yet can be a testimony builder to others after doing some digging to get to the truth is a concept that I have been experiencing for a number of months now. You are far ahead of me in that regard but I appreciate your posts immensely and do hope that you will continue.

Amen, GR33N!! I have been experiencing the same thing for several months!!! Indeed finding more Truth can be a testimony builder!! Just as was revealed to Joseph concerning the Apocrypha:

D&C 91

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha—There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly;

2 There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men.

3 Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated.

4 Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth;

5 And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom;

6 And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited. Therefore it is not needful that it should be translated. Amen.

Watcher, please continue to share!

Shalom,

jo

Tree of life: You lost me completely when you started quoting Mormon "scripture". I am glad, though, that you quoted the section from Romans which in reality does stand as a perfect condemnation of the Mormon principle of working for justification before God. I am reluctant to use the word salvation because when Christians use the term it means something quite different as I understand it to how Mormons use the word.