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The following posts are my opinion on the writings of Paul to the Romans. It is the most important scripture that one can follow in my view. I would be willing to discuss details and why I feel the way I do but many of the things I discuss will of course led to tangents. I will not go down rabbit trails. That job is left to young girls named Alice.

I do not speak for any church and the things I discuss are in opposition to the church I currently belong to. The LDS church rejects the things I will present. In fact many churches will reject this interpretation because it is centered around personal revelation and the church is but a meaningless side note.

I expect a lot of negative comments and I have no problem with that. I just ask you to please don't repeat your opinion over and over and over. It just will clutter up the thread.

I plan on answering all questions and if I miss yours please remind me. The last time I did this several pages were added between my visits. If I feel that a person is not serious I will ignore those posts.

So without further comment.

Man tends to think of himself as one thing. This is the carnal mind which is how we grow up and experience the world around us. The most difficult thing you will ever do is develop a sense for the spirit separate from the carnal mind. It requires a journey deep into ones self and with the help of Baptism we can split in two. The flesh with the carnal mind and the spirit which can then start a walk with God. I will attempt to show how Paul and the Holy Spirit laid out this path in scripture so that those who are ready can envision their goal so they can start the walk in the spirit.

This is a very difficult subject and may require years of effort to fully embrace the concept and then more time to strengthen the spirit. But all journeys begin with the first step.

I will use the letter written by Paul to the Romans to describe this dual existence we have but the duality is embedded in all of scripture. This is the spiritual view of scripture verses the physical or worldly view. The worldly view is the one in which the carnal mind sees and tries to understand scripture using the wisdom of the world. The carnal mind can not receive the things of God so it forms its own view of the message. This is why there are so many views of scripture produced by the carnal mind.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The proof of the carnal mind is all around us as various churches and doctrines. The search for the correct church is a fool’s game. There are no correct churches, not one. We can have fellowship and we can join together in charity. We can seek to edify each other using the gifts of God. If you must be in a church for fellowship then seek one which tells you to seek knowledge no matter where or how it comes to you. Reject a church which says that only the leaders of the church hold the message from God. All truth comes from the Holy Spirit; it does not come from church leaders. There are Holy men among us but every one of them is to be tested against scripture and verified by the Holy Spirit.

So let us read the section of the letter to the Romans in which the Holy Spirit through Paul lays out in detail our dual state.

Romans 1

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the Holy Scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is interesting to note that Paul considers himself separated out for the gospel. To me it implies that many like him (a Jew) would remain under the Law of Moses. It appears that this dividing is an act of God.

Paul’s letter is addressed to those who are in Rome and are called of Jesus Christ and called to be saints. So we can see that this letter is for those who have already accepted Christ. As we go through the letter Paul uses the history of the law of Moses to show a progression of God’s commandments and he also shows how God deals with those on a path of faith. To us it may seem confusing showing all of the history of the Jews, but Paul is showing it all makes perfect sense and all leads to our spiritual walk. I will concentrate on the spiritual walk and not go into all that much detail on the history of the law. I will limit my comments to just those ideas which we need in order to see the plan that God has laid out for us. Many see God changing over time and treating some people one way and others completely different. I know that God does not change. It may be difficult to see now but part of this commentary deals with this issue. It is my belief that buried in this letter from Paul is the spiritual plan for our souls. The Holy Spirit knowing that men would be destroying documents and changing scripture buried the message of God in a very difficult to read letter. If the message was more clear the letter would have been burned with many other documents over time. Only with prayer and spiritual discernment will you be able to clearly see what the message is that Paul wrote with the help of the Holy Spirit. I must have read this letter of Paul’s a few hundred times and asked for guidance from God each time I read it. It still took years. Do not expect this commentary to take the place of searching the scriptures. And do not give this paper any measure of truth. Truth comes from God and it is the Holy Spirit which guides us to truth. Ponder what is written here but seek guidance from the Spirit.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Now we see a dividing happen. It is obvious that faith has levels and the faith of those in Rome who have heard the call and answered that calling in faith have developed their faith to such a level as to separate out themselves from the rest of the world. So in essence these believers are ready to hear Paul’s words. We may all feel we are ready but just how much faith was Paul referring to in his letter? I think we will know if we are ready if the things in the letter make sense to us or we have already started the journey he will speak about.

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Here again Paul is referring to their level of faith. Their faith is such that Paul will receive comfort from them. Now even at this level of faith Paul states that he is desirous to impart to them some spiritual gift. He goes on to imply that they may be established to the end by the help of the spiritual gift. It is my belief that the rest of the letter is a detailed account of that spiritual gift. Yet that gift being of spirit can only be discerned with spiritual eyes. Those with carnal eyes will just see words on a page.

13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Paul was led by the Spirit of God to go many places. He was also prompted to write many letters in which some are very difficult to understand teachings as laid out. In fact Peter states this clearly.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

What is most interesting is that the wisdom of Paul was given to him. In much the same way the wisdom of Solomon was given to him.

But how are we to know if we have the faith and spiritual wisdom that Paul speaks of? How can we know if we have spiritual eyes and can see the message of God? Don’t we need a measuring stick of some kind that allows us to measure ourselves? All of these questions are answered by Paul. We just have to read and understand what he was saying.

Roman 1

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Here is a statement which divides those who can see from those who can not. Those things of God that may be known are manifest to those who have the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith. So verse 20 is the test of your faith. Do you see the power of God in the creation? Or do you see the power of nature as defined by Darwin and science? Who tells you how to observe the creation around you? Are you listening to the Holy Ghost or do you listen to other men tell you how to view the natural world? Do you see the flood of Noah in the creation? Or do you listen to men who say there was no flood and the Bible must be allegorical when speaking of a global flood. Are the arguments of men more powerful to you than the obvious power of God as seen in the creation? Do you see with spiritual eyes or are your eyes dulled by the wisdom of the world? If you have allowed the world to be your guide how can the Holy Ghost be your guide? You can only serve one master. You can only have one guide. One guide takes you on a spiritual path; the other takes you on the carnal path of the world.

If you can not see the power of God in the creation how can you expect to see the message of God in scripture? So the verses that follow will only be understood by someone with spiritual discernment. But the explanation will seem foolish to those who are of the world. In the following verses Paul describes those who are still on the carnal path.

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Here is a list of things which the people of the world do as a result of embracing the world and not God. Many people say they love God and I am sure some do. But we are speaking of levels of faith. Paul writes about the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith. This is the faith required to avoid the corruption of the world. I do not have this faith yet but I am moving that direction. I know that if I consider myself saved and at the end of my journey then I will miss most of what Paul teaches. I know that to see with spiritual eyes requires the faith of the saints.

We can also see in these passages that God will punish some on the earth because of their behavior. To be punished on the earth is much better than to spend some time being punished in the afterlife.

Romans 2

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Paul continues with details about those who do not walk a righteous path. He makes it clear that there is no escape. It is interesting to point out verses 6, 7, 8. Here Paul contrasts the people who doing things right verses those who are doing things wrong. Note that Paul says that those who are doing things right do so by continuance in well doing. So doing well is a continuous effort not just some moment of accepting Jesus. It goes beyond faith to the behavior that we manifest. As a measure of our faith we change ourself based on our faith. If we say we love God but hate our brother then we do not love God. If we say we have faith yet we do evil then what measure of faith can we have? We need the faith of saints so we embrace our faith and that faith manifest in outward changes in us.

A most important verse is verse 11. As we explore all scripture we must keep in mind that God does not treat one different than another. He treats us differently based on what we do not who we are. God has standards and those standards will be met by all. Every knee will bow and everyone will confess before God. The application of this verse across scripture is one of the cornerstones to unlocking the spiritual aspects of scripture.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

The word perish used in conjunction with those who sinned without the law is important.

Apollumi is translated as perish. The same word is used in 2Peter.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.

In 2Peter Peter was writing about the world. The world was reformed and was different from before the flood and then after the flood. The listed changes were the addition of rainbows and rain. But what we actually have is a reformed world not a replacement. The world was not brought to nothing and made from scratch again. We have fossil evidence before the flood so we know that many features stayed pretty much the same. But still we have the word perished used. Could this be a common use of the word in scripture? If so it does make for an interesting interpretation of Romans 2:12 It would appear that Paul is saying that the people who lived before the law, those who did not have their sin imputed to them were changed yet continued. In this sense the flesh was changed but the souls remained on the world. In my view Paul continues this thought in the rest of his letter.

Romans 2

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

When we take the Spirit of God in us we will start to do the will of the Father. Truth leads to light and light manifest in good works. We do not need a list of laws to follow if we have the light of Christ in us. The outward letter of the law should not be our guide but the inward Spirit of God as He writes on our heart. Here Paul is saying that the Spirit writing on our heart manifest in us good behavior. The intent of the law and what is written on our hearts is the same.


17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? Thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? Thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfill the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Here Paul is contrasting faith and the law. Both are judged by God. Those who are to live by faith in Christ are one set of people and those who are to live by the Law of Moses are another group of people. He lays out how the judgment will be administered by God for those who say they live by the law. We are all judged by what we do.

Paul's purpose in writing Romans is to demonstrate the meaning of the gospel and its power. It's theme is God's wonderful Gospel of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ and it emphasizes that that salvation is open to all, Jew and gentile alike. His subject is the Gospel which has the power to work a miracle in men by making them acceptable to God. This acceptance comes from God as a free gift on only one condition...faith. Sinful man's need is met by the love of God through his son who shed his blood and gave his life as an offering for that sin. A free gift is simply that...no strings attached...you can't buy it...you can't earn it...you can't deserve it....it is free and it brings a righteousness FROM god. You missed the most important verses from chapter one:

"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who BELIEVES: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the Gospel a righteousness FROM GOD is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from FIRST TO LAST, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith" Romans 1:16-17 NIV

Verses 18-20 are a clear indication that sinful people cannot use ignorance of God to excuse their behavior since he is plain to see even on a minimal level by the very things he has created which are all around us.

In fairness, Franktalk, you did state it was your personal opinion and not supported by anything else but I would be interested in how you explain a free gift and Paul's contention that righteousness, being right with God, is something God gives and not something we generate. Oh, and before you make the hackneyed charge that Christians believe they can do anything they want because they are saved let me reiterate what I have said in the past...good works and commandment keeping are important but they are the demonstration of salvation and not the means to earn it.

Albion wrote: This acceptance comes from God as a free gift on only one condition...faith.

I completely disagree. The message will unfold over the chapters. To be saved from punishment requires faith and repentance. But to overcome to eternal life requires something way more. I will be happy to discuss this in detail after chapter five and six have been posted. What is very important is to look at the whole of chapters one through nine as one path. There is way more there than what I am presenting. This is one of the keys to scripture. The other is the Book of Daniel. The last one to my knowledge is 2Peter. There may be more but I don't see them yet. I look forward to the time I do.

For those who see the scriptures through the lens of worldly logic they will not see what Paul was writing about. There is nothing I can do about it. It may seem arrogant but it is what it is. I am but a messenger. It was not many days ago that I could not see it myself.

Romans 3

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, that thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? Whose damnation is just.
9 What then? Are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Paul is setting the stage for what follows. He states that both Jew and Gentile are under sin. He states that not one is righteous. Paul has already declared that those who have faith to faith are different but now he is saying we are all the same in sin. No matter our faith we all fall short and we all need a path to clean ourselves of our sin.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The knowledge of sin was brought to the world by the law. You could say that once man knows that God has commandments for us then we are held accountable to keep those commandments. Since to love God and to love each other are the two greatest commandments then we all fail at the top. To love all of the souls on the earth is something the flesh can not do. The flesh is subject to the world and God is asking for perfection. So our soul which acquires faith in the knowledge of Jesus the Christ can clean us of the sins that the body of flesh acquires by accepting Christ and His redemption power. It is Christ who has the power of forgiveness. We through faith must repent and ask to be forgiven. This allows us to be clean for a moment but that is all. Going back and seeking forgiveness over and over is not perfection. We are told to be like Father who is perfect. The Father does not sin so how can we be like Christ who lived without sin or the Father who lives without sin? Now if Paul stopped here and said nothing more then we might conclude that the best we can do is try our best and not acquire perfection. But he does go on and describes the spiritual walk, But before doing so he again contrast the Jew and the Gentile and how the law and works plays out for all of us.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

It is faith that allows someone to modify their behavior to please God. It is the love of God that allows us to do works in righteousness. We want to do good works because it is the right thing to do. It is the will of God to do good works. If one does do good works for rewards in heaven those works are not counted for righteousness.

Worldly logic or false logic it is all the same. You are not disagreeing with me but with Paul. Let me ask again, what is a free gift? Where does the believers righteousness come from? Paul clearly states it but in the power of your own reasoning you choose to ignore what he is saying as effectively as you did by omitting these essential verses from your outline. It is through faith that the believer receives God's FREE GIFT and that FREE GIFT is righteousness. Believers are made right with God through faith in his Son and God gives righteousness as a result.

Again, Franktalk: What is a free gift? Where does righteousness come from?

Albion wrote:Worldly logic or false logic it is all the same. You are not disagreeing with me but with Paul. Let me ask again, what is a free gift? Where does the believers righteousness come from? Paul clearly states it but in the power of your own reasoning you choose to ignore what he is saying as effectively as you did by omitting these essential verses from your outline. It is through faith that the believer receives God's FREE GIFT and that FREE GIFT is righteousness. Believers are made right with God through faith in his Son and God gives righteousness as a result.

Again, Franktalk: What is a free gift? Where does righteousness come from?

You are repeating yourself. I can remember your last post. It is not a hard thing to do. Read my last post. Let me know if you do not understand my words. If you do then repeating your words means nothing to me. This may be hard for you accept. So be it. I am so tired of people who repeat and repeat their case. Do you think the whole world is dull? What a self centered thing to think. Please be aware that your words are not cutting at all. You must try harder if you wish to change my course. In fact you must rise up to the power of God. What chance do you have? None.

Romans 4

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

If Abraham did good works then those works would count to glory if they were done without faith in God. But if the works were done because of faith in the promise of God then those works would be counted as righteousness. Even the law has a foundation in faith. Faith that the law came from God.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Here Paul is contrasting again works done for a reward verses works done because of a belief in God. For those who do good works so that God is in debt to them the works count for nothing. For those who do works because of their belief in God then their faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? For we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

The Lord choose Abraham and Abraham had faith in the Lord before Abraham was circumcised so the tree of faith had been established before circumcision. So Abraham is the father of the faith for both the Jew and the Gentile.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Abraham was commanded to be perfect. Gen 17:1 At that time Abraham was told about his future son Isaac. This is also the time that the Lord changed the name of Abram to Abraham and Sarai to Sarah. Later Abraham is tempted by the Lord Gen 22:1 where Abraham is commanded to kill Isaac as a sacrifice to the Lord. This was a test to the faith in God’s promise to make Isaac a father of many nations. Abraham was going to carry out the Lord’s command but was stopped at the last moment. The world is setup to tempt all of us. But we are to strive to be perfect in this fallen world. To be perfect is to have unshakable faith and to follow the commandments of the Lord.

I will stop for a few days to allow all those who wish to participate in this thread to ask what they may ask.

Franktalk, I am sorry that you cannot, or will not, answer the simple questions I posed. Not a very good start for you, is it? You invite questions and then refuse to respond to legitimate ones I have raised. You can ignore awkward verse that don't fit your theories but they stand as part of God's word none the less.