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...from 183rd General Conference (April 2013)
https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... 7001&cid=9

Elder Perry making the Church's position, with authority, on marriage and family quite clear. He ties this position, inextricably, to the doctrine of agency and obedience to commandments. He emphasizes over and over how this is "unchanging" - "do(es) not change" - "never waivers" - "never change(s) and will never change" - "moral absolutes"....
I know this will disappoint the many struggling-with-self-doubt-and-waning-confidence apostates who insist, and dream, that the church will modify this position in order to appease the modern fad of same-sex marriage....but hopefully this will be one confusion less in their basket of delusion.

And which position does the Church supposedly clearly state is unchanging exactly?

Is marriage between one man and one wife or is marriage between one man and many wives?

Because I'm confused about such things and believe they are complete non-sense.

And in the future, if the Church actually does allow for gay marriage, the believing members can just say Elder Perry was speaking as a man, so either way members get to claim the Church hasn't changed.

Fence Sitter wrote:And in the future, if the Church actually does allow for gay marriage, the believing members can just say Elder Perry was speaking as a man, so either way members get to claim the Church hasn't changed.

This will happen in less than 20 years.

son of Ishmael wrote:This will happen in less than 20 years.

If/when it does, members will point to past statements by Church leaders encouraging sexual relations within marriage and downplay any statements that might have been interpreted as homophobic. 30 years from that point, members will deny there ever was such a standard and that the Church has always been in favor of gay marriage. There may even be a statement by the Prophetess to assure gay members that they are welcome, along with worldwide brain implant PR broadcasts showing gay couples who are Mormon, just like anyone else. The only thing that really will not have changed is claims by members that nothing has changed.

subgenius wrote:...from 183rd General Conference (April 2013)
https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... 7001&cid=9

Elder Perry making the Church's position, with authority, on marriage and family quite clear. He ties this position, inextricably, to the doctrine of agency and obedience to commandments. He emphasizes over and over how this is "unchanging" - "do(es) not change" - "never waivers" - "never change(s) and will never change" - "moral absolutes"....
I know this will disappoint the many struggling-with-self-doubt-and-waning-confidence apostates who insist, and dream, that the church will modify this position in order to appease the modern fad of same-sex marriage....but hopefully this will be one confusion less in their basket of delusion.

And you didn't see the irony in Elder Perry's speaking of the LDS God as never changing his position on marriage?

subgenius wrote:...from 183rd General Conference (April 2013)
https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... 7001&cid=9

Elder Perry making the Church's position, with authority, on marriage and family quite clear. He ties this position, inextricably, to the doctrine of agency and obedience to commandments. He emphasizes over and over how this is "unchanging" - "do(es) not change" - "never waivers" - "never change(s) and will never change" - "moral absolutes"....
I know this will disappoint the many struggling-with-self-doubt-and-waning-confidence apostates who insist, and dream, that the church will modify this position in order to appease the modern fad of same-sex marriage....but hopefully this will be one confusion less in their basket of delusion.

A clear statement...from General Conference (April 1978)
I know this will disappoint the many struggling-with-self-doubt-and-waning-confidence apostates who insist, and dream, that the church will modify this position in order to appease the modern fad of racial equality....but hopefully this will be one confusion less in their basket of delusion.

A clear statement...from General Conference (April 1889)
I know this will disappoint the many struggling-with-self-doubt-and-waning-confidence apostates who insist, and dream, that the church will modify this position in order to appease the modern fad of monogamy....but hopefully this will be one confusion less in their basket of delusion.

Rinse...repeat...

as predictable as Bazooka/Drifting is, he, as usual, sidesteps the actual debate and prefers to make a sophomoric and feeble attempt at correlation.
The point in Elder Perry's speech is that this doctrine is arguably the doctrine that the entire CoJCoLDS is founded upon. If someone has references that show the church giving money to support the Jim Crow laws (Democratic authors) or finds a "A Proclamation on Polygamy" of comparable extent and emphasis then, please, post.
Otherwise, it is as i have stated. The position on marriage is not just a social, cultural, or political one - it is intrinsically linked to the paramount doctrine for the structure of the church and the Gospel.
As we still see in the posts above, some posters are so deeply entrenched they still have "faith" that this position will change in 20 years....this is tantamount to believing that the church, any real church, will eventually allow for there to be only 5 commandments instead of 10...though arguably the Baptist already have.

for what it's worth Sub, I do not believe the Church's position on SSM will change in 20 years, but I would not have believed the speed with which the Church has changed on this issue in general over the last 30 years. We have gone from the BKP mindset of hate toward gays, of punching gays, electroshock shock and aversion therapy as a treatment for a "curable" disease promoted by church leaders, and how group masturbation can make one gay, to an acceptance of celibate gays on missions, openly celibate gay members holding Church callings, gay organizations on campus at BYU, a Church sponsored web site exclusively about the Church position on GLBT people, statements by Church leaders allowing for the possibility that homosexuality is not just a choice, and a rhetoric of tolerance being preached by the prophet from the conference pulpit.

Will the Church approve of gay marriage in 20 years? Probably not, but who knows with how fast the world is changing right now on this issue. It is not just a movement in the US, it is worldwide. I expect that as a TBM you reject the notion that what happens in the world has no bearing on how the Church reacts, but from a non believing point of view it is quite clear the Church has and does react to the demands of the world, especially on civil rights issues.

I think that the speed with which it may happen will depend entirely on the tide of public opinion, a force that works so much faster now days due to social networking and a force I think the Church has very little ability to control.

subgenius wrote:...from 183rd General Conference (April 2013)
https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... 7001&cid=9

I know this will disappoint the many struggling-with-self-doubt-and-waning-confidence apostates who insist, and dream, that the church will modify this position in order to appease the modern fad of same-sex marriage....but hopefully this will be one confusion less in their basket of delusion.

I'm an apostate and I don't care what position the church takes on same sex marriage.