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I am submitting this paper for your review. You are likely familiar with many of these points, however, upon careful reading, you will find some that will really surprise you.

It was a shock to me to discover that we LDS do not know the Lord as well as we thought we did. How that happen is the general theme of this paper and where the LDS church is heading if it doesn't change.

This view is taken from decades of experience of work among the Traditional Native Americans, knowing the Book of Mormon was written by their ancestors and thus, their view of the Book of Mormon before being indoctrinated with Gentile beliefs, customs, and haughtiness should preside when interpreting it.

My experience is that their view of God is radically different from any of those of the Restoration groups and they know God much more intimately than any Gentile that I have seen. Most Native Americans today have been Gentilized and have lost their way, which is why they are so prone to alcohol and every vice that comes with it.

In many places, one can find stacks of small stones piled on top of each other where a Native made a little prayer spot centurys ago. I saw one some 600 feet above one village on a messa on a vertical climb. What that means is that someone made that arduous climb every morning and evening to talk to the Lord. What Restorationalist do you know ever had tha kind of dedication? Yet that was the norm by those people, not the exception.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?ci ... Bsrc=Share

Oh, I think it is rather clear the LDS Church is in Apostasy to a degree. Apostasy is a constant problem and when we wander off and do not seek God and what he has to say, we are on the path. I can't remember the last time LDS leaders have claimed to see or speak with the Lord and reported in General Conference what he had to say. That alone clearly indicates the extent of the problem and why you can be certain that the LDS Church is in Apostasy.

That being said, I do not believe the rift is unrepairable. All they need to do is seek the Lord and what he says and reform along the lines he indicates. I still believe many LDS members believe in revelation and in doing what God asks (vs what the Brethren pretend is from God) so I'm optimistic that over time they can reform and turn again to the Lord.

bananaboy wrote:In many places, one can find stacks of small stones piled on top of each other where a Native made a little prayer spot centurys ago. I saw one some 600 feet above one village on a messa on a vertical climb. What that means is that someone made that arduous climb every morning and evening to talk to the Lord. What Restorationalist do you know ever had tha kind of dedication? Yet that was the norm by those people, not the exception.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?ci ... Bsrc=Share

Here's one.



It's a matter of conjecture whether this is a focus of worship or a hunting aide erected a very long time ago to redirect bighorn sheep in the direction that the hunters wanted them to go. They are usually found on the crest of a hill.

The theory is that the bighorns would see them in silhouette and think that they were people on the canyon's edge, forcing them to run down the bottom of the canyon to the waiting hunters.

It must have worked because you can find them all over the South West.

Not conjecture on the ones I have seen. There is no way that a one or two foot high stack of stones are going to redirect bighorn sheep when they are stacked on the edge of a cliff unless they are trying to prevent the sheep from falling over the edge. Seriously, these are not a man-sized rock stack that I am talking about. Many of the rocks are no bigger than the size of your hand. The Natives even say they are prayer spots. That says it all to me.

bananaboy wrote:Not conjecture on the ones I have seen. There is no way that a one or two foot high stack of stones are going to redirect bighorn sheep when they are stacked on the edge of a cliff unless they are trying to prevent the sheep from falling over the edge. Seriously, these are not a man-sized rock stack that I am talking about. Many of the rocks are no bigger than the size of your hand. The Natives even say they are prayer spots. That says it all to me.

Trail markers? I have seen many of those, as well. A small pile of stones that mark the beginning of a trail. Often, those taking the trail would add a stone to the pile. There may have been some religious significance to that (there is a religious significance to many of the things that Native Americans did), but we really don't know.

If you would like to see a Native American creation that does hold some religious value, here's another image:



It's hard to fit this into the Book of Mormon, though.

Quasimodo wrote:Trail markers? I have seen many of those, as well. A small pile of stones that mark the beginning of a trail.

Known as a "cairn" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairn

RockSlider wrote:

Quasimodo wrote:Trail markers? I have seen many of those, as well. A small pile of stones that mark the beginning of a trail.

Known as a "cairn" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairn

Thanks for the link, RockSlider. That's exactly what I was talking about. On one of those trail markers (cairns) I found a six inch stone with a lovely petroglyph of a man with an atl atl (a spear thrower used before the invention of bows and arrows). I think the guy that put it there a few thousand years ago was going hunting. It's still there (as far as I know) and I'm not telling anyone where it is.

Quasimodo wrote:Thanks for the link, RockSlider. That's exactly what I was talking about. On one of those trail markers (cairns) I found a six inch stone with a lovely petroglyph of a man with an atl atl (a spear thrower used before the invention of bows and arrows). I think the guy that put it there a few thousand years ago was going hunting. It's still there (as far as I know) and I'm not telling anyone where it is.

Cairns were also used as markers to help hunters drive buffalo towards buffalo jumps.

...

Just got to the bit about Hinduism.

Nonsense.

It speaks of Hindu gurus "cutting up Hinduism into many pieces" to market it to the Western world.

Hinduism isn't just one thing to be cut up into pieces. It encompasses the countless religious traditions and beliefs of the Indian sub continent.

Not to mention the fact that it can't be traced back to Babylon. It can't be traced back to anything. It predates history and is the oldest know set of beliefs.

Really, the whole thing is silly and its obvious that no one proof read it.

Can we all please stop feeding the trolls?