DiscussMormonism.com

Bazooka wrote:

subgenius wrote:I got a sense that the OP was noting how doubt is often the precursor to faith. ...or even that doubt itself is an act of faith. ...
Or are you of the idea that the OP is suggesting some sorry of cognitive dissonance. ..or rather, spiritual dissonance?

It's only Mormon doubts that one should doubt though, right?
If a Catholic has doubts about their faith because of what Mormon missionaries have told them, they should first doubt their doubts before doubting their Catholic faith, right?

subgenius wrote:I doubt that.

Polarized (Bipolar) thinking is so common, even in the lds culture.

But thinking with integrity is paradoxical thinking.

Subgenius,
I love that picture, and the implications of illusion.
"Functional illusions are priceless."

Faith and doubt cannot exist in the same mind at the same time, for one will dispel the other.

Monson has not really thought of this all that deeply. I believe his motivation is to keep membership numbers high. You do this by discouraging reflection and inquiry. the gospel as presented by the church is a 100 miles wide and 2 inches deep.

Amore wrote:1) All we think is subjectively limited so all our thoughts - including doubts - are faith-based.

2) To truly be faith, there must be some doubt, otherwise it is either knowing with 100% certainty, or the belief of such & without the belief you could be wrong, you'd set yourself up for worshipping falsehoods.

Hopes?
Doubts?

I get it, Amore. Your point is well taken and thanks for sharing.

Perhaps it's like Harry Potter's thestrals. Only those of us with certain experiences can comprehend and to those that don't comprehend, no amount of trying to explain on our part will help them see what we see.

I am extremely grateful for my doubts, for without them I would not understand my faith.

Boanerges,
Thank you. :)

It's in no way easy to embrace paradoxes that we are.
Accept imperfection, but strive for better... It's so tempting for me to just strive for better, but then my criticalness drives me & those I project it onto, crazy.

Then again, if I just accept everthing without striving, no progress is made and problems can become worse in the attempts at denial.

RockSlider wrote:Joseph Smith's "Lectures on Faith" tells us that true faith requires certain knowledge (not the wishy washy definition of faith one typically hears), no doubt can exists for real/true mustard seed moving mountains level of faith to work.

So what say ye is the relationship of belief and faith?

Good question.

If faith can move mountains - or at least have some influence as quantum physics suggests - then ideally, it is carefully directed. This implies the need of testing, doubt.

Belief seems to be repeated thought that affects action, so some degree of active faith.

Amore wrote:

RockSlider wrote:Joseph Smith's "Lectures on Faith" tells us that true faith requires certain knowledge (not the wishy washy definition of faith one typically hears), no doubt can exists for real/true mustard seed moving mountains level of faith to work.

So what say ye is the relationship of belief and faith?

Good question.

If faith can move mountains - or at least have some influence as quantum physics suggests - then ideally, it is carefully directed. This implies the need of testing, doubt.

Belief seems to be repeated thought that affects action, so some degree of active faith.

Nothing in quantum physics suggests that faith moves or influences mountains. It does, however, move money from one person to another.

Res Ipsa wrote:

Amore wrote:Good question.

If faith can move mountains - or at least have some influence as quantum physics suggests - then ideally, it is carefully directed. This implies the need of testing, doubt.

Belief seems to be repeated thought that affects action, so some degree of active faith.

Nothing in quantum physics suggests that faith moves or influences mountains. It does, however, move money from one person to another.

It does suggest some influence, as demonstrated in the double split experiment:
https://scienceterms.net/psychology/dou ... xperiment/