17 points of the True Church

[_huckelberry]

I am puzzled about the specification of r original manuscripts for inerrancy. We have no original manuscripts. There is plenty of reason to wonder what relationship our manuscripts have to the original. The versions of Torah we have are hundreds of years after Moses. Have you ever considered whether some of the ugly rules in there are uninspired additions made over the centuries? Well there is no way to be sure about that so we are pretty much stuck following rules that make sense to us and skipping ones like " thou shalt not suffer the witch to live"which have proven very destructive.


If you are unwilling to kill witches it seems questionable that you really believe in inerrancy of scripture.

[_Mittens]

If mittens is speaking of a one true church perhaps there should be clarification of inerrancy of scripture.

"Believe the Bible is the word of God fully inspired and without error in the original manuscripts. Written under the inspriation of the Holy Spirit and having supreme authority in matters of faith and conduct."

Conduct is the subject of commandments. Consider ," remember the sabbath day and keep it holy." Is it important to do no work on Saturday?

The LORD'S DAY has replaced the Sabbath

[_huckelberry]

If mittens is speaking of a one true church perhaps there should be clarification of inerrancy of scripture.

"Believe the Bible is the word of God fully inspired and without error in the original manuscripts. Written under the inspriation of the Holy Spirit and having supreme authority in matters of faith and conduct."

Conduct is the subject of commandments. Consider ," remember the sabbath day and keep it holy." Is it important to do no work on Saturday?

The LORD'S DAY has replaced the Sabbath

That sounds like saying the Roman Catholic church has authority over scriptures. (not an unreasonable position but perhaps not completely accurate)

[_Mittens]

The LORD'S DAY has replaced the Sabbath

That sounds like saying the Roman Catholic church has authority over scriptures. (not an unreasonable position but perhaps not completely accurate)

Sounds like Mormonism

[_huckelberry]

That sounds like saying the Roman Catholic church has authority over scriptures. (not an unreasonable position but perhaps not completely accurate)

Sounds like Mormonism

Perhaps I should have been clearer. There is no change of the sabbath to Sunday in scripture. The change was made by the Catholic church, made official in the fourth century. This was done by both church authority and the authority of the emperor.

If you want to go by scripture it would appear you should observe a scriptural sabbath, Friday sunset to Saturday sunset as is done by Seventh day Adventists. (and Jews)

[_Mittens]

On what day did the early church meet for worship? Scripture never mentions any Sabbath (Saturday) gatherings by believers for fellowship or worship. However, there are clear passages that mention the first day of the week. For instance, Acts 20:7 states that “on the first day of the week we came together to break bread.” In 1 Corinthians 16:2 Paul urges the Corinthian believers “on the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income.” Since Paul designates this offering as “service” in 2 Corinthians 9:12, this collection must have been linked with the Sunday worship service of the Christian assembly. Historically Sunday, not Saturday, was the normal meeting day for Christians in the church, and its practice dates back to the first century.

The Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church. The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. But the Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law, and Christians are free from the bondage of the Law (Galatians 4:1-26; Romans 6:14). Sabbath keeping is not required of the Christian—be it Saturday or Sunday. The first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) celebrates the New Creation, with Christ as our resurrected Head. We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving. The Apostle Paul said that each individual Christian should decide whether to observe a Sabbath rest, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5). We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

[_moksha]

The LORD'S DAY has replaced the Sabbath

Officially, the Jewish Sabbath was discontinued by order of Emperor Constantine to be replaced by Mithra's Day. Since the new Lord's Day was also Sunday, it replaced Mithra's Day when Christianity became dominant.

[_huckelberry]

Mittens. the approach to Sabbath which you posted is the way I view it so any discussion further is not a disagrement about that. I live in an area with quite a few Seventh Day Adventists. I am familiar with their views (some are stricter than others) I just do not share them. It is an illustration of how different groups can take scripture and arrive at different conclusions. It can be observed in the past there has been quite a tradition of strict Sunday Sabbath observance. America has had laws in the past enforcing some Sabbath observance on Sunday. These are pretty much all gone now. I think that over the centuries people have thought about how to best keep some spirit of the Sabbath commandment. There is variety in how that works out.

[_DRLehrer]

Gee, I found a list of 20 points of the true church, and they are different, although also based entirely on scripture:

THE TWENTY POINTS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

Teachings of the True Church:

1. There will be no physical, visible coming of the Kingdom of God (John 18:36, Luke 17:21).
2. The celebration of the Lord's supper includes bread, wine (Matt 26:26-29) and the washing of each others' feet (John 13:4-15).
3. Marriage and divorce are frowned upon (1 Cor 7, Matt 19:9, Mark 10:2-12).
4. The Jewish Temple ritual will be observed (Acts 2:46).
5. The Church takes priority over family (Luke 14:26, 12:51-53, Matt 10:21).
6. Women must cover the head while praying (1 Cor 11:5-10).
7. Eunuchs will have special respect in the Church (Matt 19:12).
8. Only two commandments: Love God and love thy neighbor (Matt 22:36-40).

Members of the True Church can be recognized by the following:

9. They hold all things in common ownership (Acts 2:44-45).
10. They do not sin (1 John 3:6-9).
11. They can drink poison without harm (Mark 16:18).
12. They do not strike back if you strike them (Matt 5:39).
13. If you ask to borrow anything from them, you do not have to return it (Luke 6:30).
14. They never have to hire movers or earthmoving equipment, or use UPS; they can literally move anything by the power of God (Matt 17:20, 21:21, Mark 11:23).
15. They have no retirement plans, savings account, or food supplies stored away (Matt 6:25-34). And no possessions (Matt 19:16-21, Mark 16:21, Luke 18:22).
16. They never pray in public (Matt 6:5-8).
17. They are like sheep or children (Matt 19:14, 18:3-4, Mark 10:15, John 10:2-27, Heb 13:20).
18. They do not go to a doctor when ill, but heal each other with prayer (James 5:13-15, Mark 16:18).
19. Their children are not rebellious; they kill them if they are (Matt 15:3-9).
20. They do not die (John 8:51, 11:25-26).

Why is your list better than mine?

[Guest]

Do they include all the Commandments?

The true CHURCH (meaning the body of all saved born again believers -- past, present and future) realizes that Jesus fulfilled every requirement of the Commandments. Now our trust is in HIM and not our ability to keep the impossible. The Holy Spirit now works with the save individuals to conform them to be more and more like Christ and strive to keep HIS commandments, though imperfectly, yet perfected when viewed through the blood atoning work of Jesus.