“King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

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Shulem
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Mormon Gag Order?

Post by Shulem »

Image


The gag order starts with the President of the Church and his counsellors. They are under a spiritual gag order to not discuss the Facsimiles publicly. The same order is placed on the Quorum of the Twelve and has been passed along in essence to all of the General Authorities of the Church as the example has been set from the top levels.

DO NOT DISCUSS THE FACSIMILES!

The Church pleads the 5th.

Why?

Because it knows it’s guilty and there is no hope or help from heaven. The mouth of the Holy Ghost has been stopped cold! The heavens are closed and there is no revelation to the prophet on what to do. Mormonism is suffering a dearth of revelation and innovation on how to overcome this obvious fraud that is so apparent that nobody can deny it and keep a straight face.

Everyone knows the Mormon Facsimiles are a fraud. And with that comes the exit door for a way out of Mormonism.

[x] The Facsimiles are a fraud
[x] The Book of Abraham is fiction
[x] Egypt predates Smith’s account by thousands of years
[x] Smith’s account of how Egypt sprung forth is a lie
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Shulem
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No name Pharaoh

Post by Shulem »

News reporter wrote:President Nelson!

What’s the Church’s position on the king’s name in Facsimile No. 3? Has God revealed the Pharaoh’s name to the prophets?
President Nelson wrote:No comment!

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[x] A prophet who does not prophesy.
[x] A prophet who does not know.
[x] A revelator who has no revelation.
[x] A prophet who cannot say.
[x] A seer who is in the dark.
[x] A seer who cannot see.
[x] A man who is pretending to be what he is not.
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Shulem
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A typical apologetic excuse for the facsimile blunders

Post by Shulem »

Mormon apologist wrote:The explanations of the facsimiles are not necessary for my salvation as are teachings and doctrines contained in the Book of Mormon. Besides we don’t even know if Joseph Smith authored them.

The source of the explanations is from that same Spirit and given in the same revelatory manner as always being authored and expressed by Joseph the seer who proudly published them in the Times and Seasons -- he stood by them and presented the translations to the world as revelations from God. They were published and expressed as a scripture-like revelatory restoration to the Church and it was received as such. They were heralded as being just as true as anything written in the Book of Mormon. What Smith considered a truth was part of all truth in one great whole. No truth was less true than another truth! All truth is within the bounds the Lord has set and salvation therefore depends on everything that is true together. Therefore, if it is discovered and proven that one of Smith’s professed truths is found to be untrue then it can be reasoned that there are others that are also untrue -- such as the entire content and fiction of the Book of Mormon which is no truer than the Explanations of the Facsimiles.
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Shulem
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Muhlestein lies again

Post by Shulem »

Kerry Muhlestein · March 16, 2022 wrote: Image

Maybe we shouldn’t be looking at what Egyptians thought Facsimiles meant at all, but rather at how ancient Jews would have interpreted them.

Answers About the Book of Abraham: The Facsimiles and Egyptological Interpretations

Maybe you should stop lying and cease making false narratives for those who are so easily seduced by your craftiness and willingness to deceive at any cost. YOU, Kerry, are a liar. Joseph Smith said nothing about Jews with regard to the Book of Abraham and the translation therein, written and read by Hebrews & Egyptians alike in Abraham’s own time!

Read my lips Kerry:

THERE WERE NO JEWS *WHEN* ABRAHAM PENNED THE PAPYRUS WHICH SMITH DATED AS 3,500 YEARS OLD!

Do you understand that, Mr. Mulhestein? Do you have a brain? Can you count? Listen, not one single Jew existed when Abraham went to Egypt! Smith claimed the papyrus was as old as the Patriarch himself, written by his own hand. Will you circumvent Smith and deny his revelation in dating the papyrus? Repeat after me, Kerry:

JOSEPH SMITH WAS WRONG!

But you have the audacity to say “Maybe we shouldn’t be looking at what Egyptians thought Facsimiles meant at all, but rather at how ancient Jews would have interpreted them”! But according to Joseph Smith and biblical chronology there were no Jews to interpret what Abraham penned by his own hand upon papyrus. Judah had not yet been born! So please, shut up about the Jews! Enough! You’re just trying to fool gullible readers and those who aren’t smart enough to detect your apologetic tricks. But I know your tricks, and I can beat you at your own game, every single time.

Joseph Smith was absolutely adamant about what the Egyptians thought of the Facsimiles in which Abraham was said to produce to commemorate his ministry in Egypt. None of it has anything to do with post-Abrahamic JEWS! The Jews did not exist. The Egyptians and Hebrews in whom Abraham referenced lived in Abraham’s day, a time that predated Isaac and Jacob.
  • “Abraham in Egypt”
  • “Designed to represent the pillars of heaven, as understood by the Egyptians”
  • “in relation to this subject, the Egyptians meant it to signify”
  • “which is called by the Egyptians”
  • “called by the Egyptians”
  • “a numerical figure, in Egyptian”
  • “Is called in Egyptian”
  • “said by the Egyptians”
  • “Signifies Abraham in Egypt”
  • “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”
  • “Prince of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, as written above the hand”
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Philo Sofee »

Soooooo, you're saying the prophets and scholars have a chance? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Shulem
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:41 am
Soooooo, you're saying the prophets and scholars have a chance? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually, mathematically there is 0 chance the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 are correct translations from Egyptian into English -- ZERO CHANCE! There is absolutely no chance that Joseph Smith got it right. His interpretations and translations of the text and the iconography of this Facsimile are 100% wrong. That does not bode well for his claims to be a prophet and seer and one who has a divine gift to translate ancient languages such as what was illegibly on the gold plates and lest we forget the Kinderhook plates serve as another example of Smith’s translation debacles. No matter how you shake it or slice it, Smith couldn’t translate ancient languages whether they were real or fake.

I testify that Joseph Smith fraudulently claimed to translate conventional Egyptian and he knew he was lying. There is nothing on God’s green earth that can change the reality of the past. Apologists today can imagine whatever they want and create all kinds of silly excuses but in the end the facts speak for themselves and the apologists are left holding an empty bag with absolutely nothing to show for their circus acts.

We win! They lose!

The gig is up. Game over, baby.
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Re: Muhlestein lies again

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Kerry Muhlestein · March 16, 2022 wrote: Image

The papyri were created in a day of internationalization in Egypt. They were created in a day when the Egyptians were living among a great number of Greeks and Jews.

Not according to Joseph Smith who dated the papyrus to be 3,500 years old and testified to the world that God had revealed that to him. According to Joseph Smith’s official declaration “three thousand five hundred years” had lapsed since Abraham HIMSELF penned it by his own hand! *THAT* information was given in the spirit of prophecy out of the very mouth of Joseph Smith who bore his personal testimony by the authority of Jesus Christ.

So, Kerry, leave the Greeks and the Jews out of it! They were not even around during Abraham’s time.
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Re: Muhlestein lies again

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Kerry Muhlestein · March 16, 2022 wrote: Image

The Egyptians borrowed from both the Jews and the Greeks in their religious and cultic practices and representations, and many Jews were similarly influenced by the Greeks and Egyptians.

Sorry Kerry, but according to Joseph Smith the papyrus written by Abraham’s own hand was “3,500” years old and there were no Jews or Greeks around to influence Abraham or the Egyptians. You are attempting to take the future back into the past in order to rationalize Smith’s false translations.

I know what you’re doing, Kerry. You’re lying.
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Shulem
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Re: Muhlestein lies again

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Kerry Muhlestein · March 16, 2022 wrote: Image

Thus we must conclude that the Jews who created or worshipped in these synagogues were using representations from the cultures around them but using and understanding them in their own unique way. Isn’t it possible that this was also done with all three Facsimiles? Couldn’t these all represent a Jewish way of understanding Egyptian style drawings? Shouldn’t we expect that at least some of the large number of Jews in Egypt adopted the Egyptian depictions around them and used them in their own way? Wouldn’t we actually be shocked if this didn’t happen?

Nope.

Joseph Smith said nothing about the Jews or Jewish religion with regard to Abraham’s record “written by his own hand, upon papyrus” and “after a lapse of three thousand five hundred years” Smith translated the very scroll in which Abraham penned.

Kerry, the Jews did not exist in Abraham’s time and Smith never likened the Facsimiles to people who did not yet exist. The Facsimiles according to Smith were a representation of people who lived in Abraham’s own time. You are making stuff up out of thin air and are lying to your readers. You should be ashamed of this kind of apologetic. It’s appalling to say the least.
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Kevin L. Barney

Post by Shulem »

Kevin L. Barney wrote: Image

“Semitic Adaptation...”

Kevin,

These two facts do exist in which Joseph Smith publicly PROCLAIMED:

  • “The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.”
  • “Besides these tangible facts, so easily proven and demonstrated by simple rules of testimony unimpeached, the art (now lost) of embalming human bodies, and preserving them in the catacombs of Egypt, whereby men, women and children as mummies, after a lapse of near three thousand five hundred years, come forth among the living, and although dead, the papyrus which has lived in their bosoms, unharmed, speaks for them, in language like the sound of an earthquake: Ecce veritas! Ecce cadaveros. Behold the truth! Behold the mummies!”

Let it be plainly understood that according to Joseph Smith the very writings of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus was on the order of three thousand five hundred years old. Therefore, Barney’s ridiculous apologetic has absolutely no bearing on anything Smith ever taught or claimed with regard to Abraham’s ancient record in which all the early Latter-day Saints (including Smith) believed was a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph penned by the Patriarch himself.

Game over, Barney. Enough!
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