“King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
Post Reply
User avatar
IWMP
Pirate
Posts: 1267
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:46 pm

Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by IWMP »

Image

What is the text circled?

This is the only text that I'd consider to be above someone's head as the rest are within boxes. It is also the character that is in the 2nd position even though it is not labelled as the 2nd character.

Gah. I don't know how to make images work here.

Yay I did it 😁
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7110
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: I can see clearly....

Post by Shulem »

Imwashingmypirate wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:41 pm
But one thing that's stands out to me strongly, and I'm not a fan of Joseph Smith but why would the figure in the first chronological position be called figure 2 when 3, 4, 5, and 6 are chronologically in the correct order.

To me this looks like figure 2 should be the seated person and that the figures 1 and 2 in the image are labelled wrong. Who put the numbers in?
The engraver, Reuben Hedlock, inserted number-types (1-6) into the lead plate according to the order given in the printer's manuscript (now lost), however the printer's manuscript for Facsimiles No. 1 and No. 2 survived. In Facsimile No. 3, Joseph Smith elected to start with the person on the throne in whom he designated was the personage of Abraham. Please note in Facsimile No. 1, he started with the Angel of the Lord to the far right and then to Abraham fastened upon an altar. Hedlock followed instructions to a T and that also included the malicious removal of Anubis's snout and headcloth from the original design in order to repurpose the dog-headed Anubis into a more slave like person.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7110
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Shulem »

Imwashingmypirate wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:53 pm
Image

What is the text circled?
The text is a sacred inscription dedicated to the life and memory of the god Osiris.

Image
Imwashingmypirate wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:53 pm
This is the only text that I'd consider to be above someone's head as the rest are within boxes. It is also the character that is in the 2nd position even though it is not labelled as the 2nd character.
Joseph Smith correctly likened the text within the vertical registers to be above the heads and hands. Indeed, convention prescribes the text above and persons below.
_Shulem wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:09 pm
Conflict of Justice wrote:Does this symbol above the head indicate Pharoah’s name? Yes.
NO, it does not indicate Pharaoh's name, period. It is a crown, sacred regalia worn by Isis a GODDESS (not a king) -- nothing more. The crown does not represent or is indicative of the name of an Egyptian king. This apologetic assertion is pure smoke and mirrors and is totally flim-flam.

The apologist made a big deal about the placement of the No. "2" being directly above the crown as if that is what Smith was looking at considering the crown itself was the characters and not the hieroglyphic text to the right directly above the crown. The apologists is dead wrong and is trying to get others to take the eye off the ball.

Why is the No. "2" placed directly above the crown and not some other part of the printing block?

Image

Space is limited on the printing block and as I said previously it's obvious that the spot where the No. 2 was placed is convenient and is an aesthetically good fit. But more importantly, according to the Explanation the No. 2 represents TWO things, not just one:

1. King Pharaoh
2. name is given in the characters above his head

The No. "2" is placed in the best place to show the PERSON at hand and the hieroglyphic script above. The person just so happens to be wearing a crown although Smith doesn't bother with those details as he did with the character in Fig. No. 1.

Bottom line: The No. "2" represents the PERSON below who is wearing a crown and the hieroglyphic text above the head.
User avatar
IWMP
Pirate
Posts: 1267
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:46 pm

Re: I can see clearly....

Post by IWMP »

Shulem wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:48 pm
Imwashingmypirate wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:41 pm
But one thing that's stands out to me strongly, and I'm not a fan of Joseph Smith but why would the figure in the first chronological position be called figure 2 when 3, 4, 5, and 6 are chronologically in the correct order.

To me this looks like figure 2 should be the seated person and that the figures 1 and 2 in the image are labelled wrong. Who put the numbers in?
The engraver, Reuben Hedlock, inserted number-types (1-6) into the lead plate according to the order given in the printer's manuscript (now lost), however the printer's manuscript for Facsimiles No. 1 and No. 2 survived. In Facsimile No. 3, Joseph Smith elected to start with the person on the throne in whom he designated was the personage of Abraham. Please note in Facsimile No. 1, he started with the Angel of the Lord to the far right and then to Abraham fastened upon an altar. Hedlock followed instructions to a T and that also included the malicious removal of Anubis's snout and headcloth from the original design in order to repurpose the dog-headed Anubis into a more slave like person.
Seems strange to me to not do it chronologically. Would have made more sense if the numbers were mixed up at print. It's very clear that the person is sitting on a throne.

Saw your other response. Thanks. Kinda looks like a comic with the speech above lol
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7110
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Shulem »

I challenge Mormon Egyptologists at Brigham Young University to draft an article supporting the idea that Joseph Smith (Editor of Times and Seasons) was justified in stating that a king’s name is written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3. Then, let them present that article to their Egyptological peers for analysis and review.

What do you say, John Gee? Are you up for that? I don’t think you are.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 6148
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Moksha »

Imwashingmypirate wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:53 pm
Yay I did it 😁
The Venus Flytrap about to chomp down on the baby duckling in Figure 3 was misunderstood by Smith's seer stone.
Hope that helps.

Anubis still wants his snout back. The Mighty Shulem shall stand as his champion!
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
IWMP
Pirate
Posts: 1267
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:46 pm

Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by IWMP »

Moksha wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 11:28 pm
Imwashingmypirate wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:53 pm
Yay I did it 😁
The Venus Flytrap about to chomp down on the baby duckling in Figure 3
:lol: looks like a music player to me.
Post Reply