Jeff Lindsay and Stephen O. Smoot take aim at Dan Vogel over “Shinehah”

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Jeff Lindsay and Stephen O. Smoot take aim at Dan Vogel over “Shinehah”

Post by Shulem »

Apologist Jeff Lindsay has recently taken aim at our resident scholar, Dan Vogel, in criticizing him for failing to explain away Joseph Smith’s Egyptian term “Shinehah” used in the Book of Abraham and seen by many as a direct hit or bullseye. I get the impression that Lindsay is a little miffed that Vogel didn’t express an allowance in recognizing that apologists feel this is strong evidence in support of Smith’s ability to translate Egyptian. In fact, it could be viewed as a scathing rebuke! Lindsay also links to Pearl of Great Price Central which has a separate article entitled Shinehah, The Sun. I’ll paste a few clips from Lindsay’s blog that specifically vents displeasure towards Vogel’s book. Lindsay’s article is not long and can be read in its entirety at this link:

Trying to Take the Shine off Shinehah: Vogel's Response to a Commonly Cited Evidence for Book of Abraham Authenticity

Jeff Lindsay (Mormanity) April 10, 2021 wrote:As I read Nibley's observations, I recalled reading about Shinehah several times in Dan Vogel's new book, Book of Abraham Apologetics, criticizing the Book of Abraham and its defenders, but I could not recall how Vogel attempted to refute the main point that Joseph's identification of Shinehah as the sun was plausible in ancient Egypt
Jeff Lindsay (Mormanity) April 10, 2021 wrote:But through all this talk of Shinehah, a word mentioned 28 times by my count in Vogel's text, and the meandering issues of where it first occurred and when, it was only today when I noticed something astonishing: There is no discussion of why this term is considered evidence for the Book of Abraham or why it matters to Latter-day Saint defenders. It's as if Vogel is just inoculating readers against a commonly cited evidence without creating any awareness of what the evidence is, so that when someone mentions Shinehah, they can shake their heads and repeat the mantra, "That's been totally refuted. Vogel crushed it completely." But unless I'm missing something that escaped my reading and repeated searching, he never says that yes, it can, as a very lucky guess or something, possibly mean "the sun."
Jeff Lindsay (Mormanity) April 10, 2021 wrote:Dan Vogel's book claims to be a fair, dispassionate treatment of the claims of Latter-day Saint apologists that examines all relevant documents. How can this be the case if vital evidence is repeatedly neglected and if arguably the single most important Latter-day Saint work on the Book of Abraham is never even mentioned?

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Stephen O. Smoot take aim at Dan Vogel over “Shinehah”

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Stephen O. Smoot wrote: Framing the Book of Abraham: Presumptions and Paradigms

Shinehah

The third chapter of the Book of Abraham furnishes the names Shinehah and Olea as meaning “the sun” and “the moon,” respectively (Abraham 3:13). Whatever language these two words are supposed to derive from, however, is left unspecified. In 1936, J. E. Homans (writing under the pseudonym R. C. Webb) felt that “neither of them resembles a word of Egyptian origin,” and argued that Shinehah derived from “such a verb-root as shanah, meaning ‘to shine,’ ‘to brighten,’ although as spelled here, it is unfamiliar.”136 Homans’ argument to link Shinehah with a Semitic root, however, is not persuasive.137 In 2010, Hugh Nibley and Michael D. Rhodes proposed a reconstructed Egyptian etymology for Shinehah as deriving from the elements and .138 While this appears plausible, it remains unattested and is a conjectural reconstruction. Matthew Grey has most recently suggested that Shinehah, like Olea, instead derives “from Smith’s previous work on the ‘pure language of Adam’,” and therefore should not be seen as deriving from any extant ancient tongue.139 Vogel, as would be expected, weighs [Page 301]in on the matter by dismissing Shinehah as an “invented” name that belongs with the other codenames created for the 1835 first edition of the Doctrine and Covenants (161). He additionally disputes the arguments made by Gee and others that Shinehah in Abraham 3:13 indicates the translation of the Book of Abraham extended beyond the extant Kirtland-era manuscripts, which end at Abraham 2:18 (158–63).

Vogel’s protestations notwithstanding, I am not convinced that we can definitively resolve the issues pertaining to the presence of Shinehah in the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants and Abraham 3:13 and what the implications of such are for the chronology of the translation of the latter. What I do wish to emphasize here is the point previously made by Gee:

“Some [like Vogel] might hypothesize that the term Shinehah was borrowed into the Book of Abraham from its use in the Doctrine and Covenants. This hypothesis assumes that the Book of Abraham is a modern fictional work written by Joseph Smith. The assumption, though unstated, is essential for the argument to be comprehensible. The problem with the assumption is that this term in the Book of Abraham is a known Egyptian term.140”

Gee is referring to the attested Egyptian word from the time of Abraham for the sun’s ecliptic: . This word141 and its cosmological significance for the ancient Egyptians is both a phonetic and a broadly conceptual match with what is found in Abraham 3142 and, accordingly, “if one accepts that the Book of Abraham is ancient, then the simplest explanation is that the Doctrine and Covenants borrows from the Book of Abraham.” If, on the other hand, one follows Vogel and “argues that the Book of Abraham borrows from the Doctrine and Covenants, then one assumes the Book of Abraham is modern, but one must still explain how it contains an authentic Egyptian term whose existence was unknown to Western scholarship until 1882.”143 Because he does not know Egyptian and by his own admission does not care to bother with the Egyptian sources in assessing the authenticity of the Book of Abraham, Vogel’s treatment neglects to account for any of this significant evidence.
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The Backyard Professor Strikes Again!!

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If you thought it couldn’t get any worse for Vogel with regard to his negligence in explaining away “Shinehah”, you thought wrong! The Backyard Professor added his testimony to the mix and it’s going to be really hard for Vogel to deal with matters now. And just look at all those footnote references! There are a whopping 41 references! Wow!

:D

Kerry A. Shirts wrote:Abraham 3:13 - Shinehah - the Sun: Joseph Smith Shines Through on This One Also

I have been reviewing much material on the various figures in the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham (hereafter cited as Book of Abraham) this year. I recently received an idea I would like to comment on and test. I was told by a critic of the Book of Abraham:

"Mormon researchers look at what Joseph Smith said and then attempt to reconstruct any conceivable link that may exist to the Egyptian\Christian religion or culture. To me, this can easily result in faulty scholarship."

Now in the case of the Book of Abraham we have something interesting. Joseph Smith in the Book of Abraham claimed that Abraham taught that to the ancient Egyptian culture, "Shinehah ... is the sun." (Book of Abraham 3:13). This is simply a straighforward idea presented without explanation or cultural backgrounds, political expediency, or religious bias. It is stated as a fact. Now in order to see if this is accurate, would we see if there are Egyptian ideas that fit Shinehah and any connections with the sun as it is claimed to have been? Yet our critic above would fault this type of thinking. How else though could we go about it? The other side of the question is, O.K. wiseguy, is there such a thing as Shinehah, or is this Joe Smith's vivid imagination as Brodie claimed with all scriptures Joseph Smith was involved in? How do we test if it is his mere imagination? Historic fact? Ancient Egyptian idea? The answer is so obvious, that is is only the desperate conviction of those bound and determined to keep in the old grooves that no matter what, Joseph Smith must not be allowed to have anything correct in the Book of Abraham. We of course, *must* see if it is ancient Egyptian, since *that is the claim, and we test what is claimed for correctness or faultiness.* It is simply breathtaking that critics *still* do not understand this.

I would turn the question on the critics, asking, before I start my investigation, is there anything in Joseph Smith's day that matches Shinehah as an ancient Egyptian idea concerning the sun in the literature? If not in Smith's day, pray tell where would they have us look, realizing that according to the only source we have, this is presented as a genuine ancient Egyptian idea? They would be willing to look *anywhere* except in ancient Egyptian culture, since if it is found there and it does fit, then obviously Joseph Smith was right and true in calling our attention to it. Of course, this is something not even to be imagined by critics, but we Mormons have a nasty habit of delving into history seriously anyway and seeing if Shinehah is real, if it is really Egyptian, and is really the ancient Egyptian concept associated with the sun itself. I mean Joseph Smith gives it all to us here! This is precise and exact, from the detailed name, to what it represents. He couldn't have given us a better target. We have recently seen that again a critic has approached the Book of Abraham claiming that no non-LDS Egyptologist has found anything fitting in the Book of Abraham, that it is all wrong. I would ask this:

Have EGYPTOLOGISTS discussed "Shinehah" yet? Have any Mormon CRITICS bothered with it yet?

I was once lambasted (by Capt. Angst, so no real big deal here) for claiming Smith was correct with the Four Sons of Horus representing the four quarters of the world, I having been told that, obviously Smith was correct on this, but he got nothing else correct. (Interesting he conceded a point at least! Something even a professional Egyptologist, Stephen Thompson wouldn't even do!) Nothing else correct indeed! Have they analyzed *everything* else yet? I haven't seen any sort of discussion whatsoever concerning Shinehah, yet it is precise and exact, no fudging here at all. So are the non-LDS Egyptologists looking into it? If not, then let us not have unsupported claims that the Book of Abraham has been proven false on *all* scores. Until *all* things are looked into, the judgment is rash at best. None of the Egyptologists of the 1912 investigation into the Book of Abraham ever mentioned Shinehah.1 H. Michael Marquardt would have us believe that "The Book of Abraham... was obviously taken from the King James Version of Genesis."2 Yet nowhere does he mention Shinehah. I would be very interested in seeing where in Genesis Shinehah is mentioned at all and what it is. Of course he doesn't talk about it because he can't or rather won't because it obviously has *no* Biblical parallels whatsoever. Charles Larson nowhere mentions Shinehah in his recent newly touted book by Anti-Mormon critics.3 And the very latest attempt is deafeningly silent on Shinehah as well, namely that of Stephen Thompson who likewise claims nothing of Joseph Smith's interpretations matches anything Egyptian.4 It's also interesting that Thompson also ignores Kolob, but that is for another research paper to come forth later this year. Now to get on with something exciting about Shinehah, What is it? And of course, as is my wont to do, I will use the best of the non-LDS Egyptologists, so as to not have the silly claim that what I write is simply bias paid Mormons trying desperately to support Joseph Smith because they have to as some sort of churchy status quo or something or other.

There has been a most interesting discussion in the last few decades in the Egyptologists notes concerning the idea of time and eternity, and how they were presented in ancient Egyptian culture and religion. Right in the thick of this is, of course, the best clock man has had for millenia, the sun and what it does. We can note here as a reference that Shinehah can be logically broken into two elements, namely, "Shine" - "hah". Also remembering that the vowels in Egyptian are conventions, not laws of grammatical or spelling correctness by any means,5 so that without vowels at all Shinehah = Shnhh, or "shn" and "hh" a *very interesting* Egyptian arrangement as we shall see!

To the Egyptians "sheni" [shn of SHINE-hah!] means to "encircle" from which "shnw" - circuit, cartouche is arrived at. The oldest form of the cartouche was round and was retained for later times as the symbol for infinity. As Sir Alan Gardiner further notes, "...it seems not unlikely that the idea was to represent the king as ruler of all that which is encircled by the sun."6 Carol Andrews notes that the "heh" [hh of Shine - HAH] means "literally infinity."7 She further noted that the "Shen" [shn of SHINE-hah] "symbolically represented everything the sun encircled..., i.e. the universe. This became the cartouche ring that the king's names were written in so that "pictorially, pharoah set his name on the whole universe and symbolically extended his control over it."8

Interestingly, the Egyptian "heh" element [the HAH in Shine-hah - remember the vowels are mere conventions] stood for a number of ideas, among them millions, or else a great number, eternity, as a verb "heh" means to go around, to search continually. It's common occurrence is in the term "nhh", eternity - that which never stops going on.9 The Egyptian "hh n sp" = "many times, or often."10 "Heh" was an Egyptian "God of years" who was symbolic of eternity and a squatting figure of the god was used as the hieroglyph for the numeral 1,000,000.11 This god is shown on the alabaster cup of Tutankhamun "holding in either hand the palm branch as a sign for 'rnp.t' meaning 'year.'"12 So we see this god, certainly a measurement of time, also holding the palm branch signifying a year, and also associated with the "encircling" sun, which, to us, in our orbit around it, equals a year. It is not exclusively one concept or idea to the loss or disuse of other functions that this symbol is involved with, but the sun is definitely associated with "heh." Heh is often seen wearing the solar disc on his head.13 The amulet of the Shen "is intended to represent the sun's orbit, and it became the symbol of an undefined period of time, i.e., eternity."14 The "tcheta-neheh" mean illimitable time in the future according to one rendition of nhh.15 In the grave of one P3djjmnmjpt we see the formula "nbb-nhh hn' dt" meaning Forever and ever, i.e., eternity.16 In a Hymn to Amon we read that "Thebes removeth the two ends of everlasting and of eternity." Gardiner, commenting on this thought notes that "dt" and "nhh" are near identical in meaning. They represent the two limits of time.17 The common formula found in the cartouches of the Kings is "dt r nhh" which means forever and ever.18 So we are tied directly into the sun as the symbol for the Shen ring, more on this marvelous ring later, as well as a timekeeper. Joseph Smith knew whereof he spoke. That this is an obviously correct association is also seen in the hieroglyph for neheh, which is the two twisted pieces of flax, and the sun in between them or to the side.19 We also note that the other hieroglyph associated with "heh" is the solar hawk inside the emblem of the sun, and the horizon symbol on which the sun rises and sets.20 Depending on what other hieroglyphs are written with it, it can mean forever, eternity, heaven, an indefinite period of time, or hundreds of thousands of years, even one million, one hundred thousand million, ten millions of millions, and even ten million hundreds thousand millions of years.21 The Boat of millions of years was identified as the boat of the sun in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.22

An excellent example of the other functions that "heh" has in Egyption thought is indicated by Gertie Englund. She notes that at Heliopolis (the city of the sun no less), the teachings of the potential duality of male and female were heavily investigated by the Egyptian priests. This process of dualisation disrupted inertness and brought in polarization, life generating activity. "The two poles are passive/static and the active/dynamic or to put it in Egyptian terms Dt and nhh."23 Interestingly, Shu is equated with "nhh" while his twin sister Tefnut is the "Dt."24 Even more interesting is that the sun God Re is also equated with "nhh... the day is nhh."25 The entire idea of "nhh" is a life-generating active energy so that the world endures.26 Which of course, *is* the sun's function. Re, the sun god, "the representative of nhh."27 Re is frequently seen with the sun disc on his head.28 In the Naukratisstele we see that the goal was to become like the sun god Re, eternal-like (ewiglich), the Egyptian hieroglyph being the heh element.29 We find more of the same idea in the Horus-Temple of Edfu, where in the inner column hall, the king is addressed: "His Majesty is raised on his throne. The beginning of eternity (nhh) is assigned to him."30 Moreover, we see that Gerhard Fecht noted that the element "hh" is interpreted out of the Egyptian Determinative (Sign list A4, A30)and may actually come from the word "Rnpt" meaning "year."31 This is interesting since, for us on earth, one year of our lives is based on revolutions around the sun, again showing the connection of "hh" with the sun.

The King's ring was like the cartouche, a carefully executed hieroglyph enscribed as a double stringed or roped circle without beginning or end.32 This ring was the "Shen" inside the early coffins.33 Jecquier saw in the Shen Ring a symbol of eternal life for the people, as well as a symbol for eternity itself.34 The symbol for this in nature is of course, the orbit of the sun, which also is symbolic of the King's universal dominion.35 Hans Bonnet said as much in his work, namely that since the root of the word for the ring he wore, the "shen" ring, with the root "snj" which means "orbits" [umkreisen], the king was gladly identified with the sun and ruled over all that it orbits, "a hint at the world-reign of the Pharaoh."36 Westendorf saw the element "nhh" within the oval of the Shen Ring, as representative of eternity, as compared to the "Dt" as eternity expressed.37 Barta explaining further the tie in with the King's reign and the sun notes that this relevant time cycle would find its spatial expression in its daily repetitive ecliptic then, so that the fate of the king is put down in parallel with that of the sungod, that also appears again and again.38 In other words, the King's Shen ring symbolically associated with the sun and all it encircles shows the king, with the sun, ruling the world, especially as the sun rises, again and again! The symbolism is perfect, and is certainly understood in the Book of Abraham, since Abraham has a rivalry with Pharoah over who rules the world, and associates the word "Shinehah" with the sun.

"The Konigsring (King's ring) must be understood as the expression of a cyclic term."39 Hence the reason that "nhh" and "hh" can mean millions, or hundreds of thousands, etc., as the various cyclical times are needed to make the illustration work. We have already seen that the Kingsring is also associated with "rnpt" which means "year." This is a very good correlation with the sun in its relationship of our earth.

The intellectual abstract term of the infinite now finds its visible expression in the Empire and accessible suncycle; because the symbol of the track of the sun is like the shen Ring, without start and without end and remains untouched as a nature constant immune from temporal changes.40 Barta also notes that the Stele of "Hntj-htj-wr" with its rounded top is another confirmation of associating the Shen ring with the sun cycles. The stele was associated with the heavens and the sun cycle especially, following Westendorf's analysis.41 So this is not just a flimsy and wishful tie in of the Shen Ring with the sun, which is good news for the Book of Abraham as Shn [whether Shen or Shine as in Shine - hah] is associated with the sun also. So we have seen that Shine - hah, in ancient Egyptian parlance, has very good chances indeed! Both elements have to do with the idea of time, as well as identification with the sun, which is exactly what we would hope for if we have authenticity in the Book of Abraham, and we are not at all disappointed as that is exactly what we find, Shinehah is associated with the sun.
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Re: Jeff Lindsay and Stephen O. Smoot take aim at Dan Vogel over “Shinehah”

Post by Shulem »

And just when you thought that Vogel might be able to recover from his clumsy omission of refuting “Shinehah”, we also have the testimony of former Book of Abraham apologist Paul Osborne, also known as Shulem, translated by Joseph Smith in Facsimile No. 3.

Your friendly royal waiter would love to serve you more Shinehah refreshments! So, sit back and enjoy the show.

Paul Osborne wrote: “Shinehah, which is the Sun”

The most significant Egyptian word preserved in the restoration of the Book of Abraham is “Shinehah” which is called the “sun” in Abr 3:13. The hieroglyphic language utilized a system which did not employ vowels, similar to Hebrew and other languages. Egyptologists transliterate Egyptian words by transcribing the consonants and usually insert the vowel “e” in between them. This makes the written language somewhat artificial, but, it is the best we can do in attempting to vocalize the language.

The consonantal Egyptian word “Shin-e-hah” is broken down as:

Image
(Faulkner Dictionary)

The Egyptian word shen means ring as in circle. The word sheni means encircle, enclose, surround, and cover. Notice the last hieroglyph is a cartouche ring in the original round form.

Image
(Faulkner Dictionary)

The second half of Shinehah is heh and is a frequently used abbreviated version for the word “n-heh”, which means eternity or forever in the Egyptian language. This is an ideal description of the SUN which is shaped as a perfect cartouche ring which encircles and provides light to all that is within its realm according to Egyptian religion. Notice the middle hieroglyph is an ideogram for the sun.

Hence, the Egyptian Shinehah preserved in the Book of Abraham means— the sun is forever.

But wait, there’s more! Don’t go away, just yet.

Paul Osborne wrote:
“Crown of Light”
Image

The fact that Joseph Smith recognized the sun disk above the head of the falcon-god, although crudely represented on the papyrus, is a major indication that the prophet knew what he was talking about. Below this paragraph is a tomb painting of the same god with a better depiction of the solar disk which is wrapped by the protecting cobra (uraeus).

Image

QUESTION

Why is the solar disk (Aten) drawn above the head of an Egyptian god considered to be a crown of eternal light in the Joseph Smith papyrus?

PAUL’S ANSWER

The crown of celestial light belongs to the God of Abraham. Joseph Smith was deciphering principles had by Abraham as he taught the Egyptian court that the Creator was indeed crowned by the light of the sun. The Sun-god is also the Lord of the cosmos. His life giving rays emanate from the circular sun disk which gives light to all the world. The light bearing god provides life, both temporally and spiritually to all mankind. The Book of Abraham preserves genuine Egyptian wordplay for the SUN in Abr 3:13 ...“This is Shinehah, which is the sun”...

The crown of light upon God’s head represents the glory of the celestial kingdom which is likened to the glory of the sun. I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is the real Sun-God whose wings are stretched out flying through the midst of heaven. He is the resurrected Falcon of the Ascension. The Sun-God ascends above all things in that he might fill all things by his own power. Herein we see that Christ rides the heavens in glory filling the immensity of space. Through the spirit of representationalism this Falcon-headed god is really Jesus Christ, the same who descended into the lower parts of the earth as a sacrificial Lamb and also ascended to heaven after his resurrection. This majestic imagery of the Egyptian religion is simply beautiful!

A parallel a parallel! Houston, we have another parallel.
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Re: Jeff Lindsay and Stephen O. Smoot take aim at Dan Vogel over “Shinehah”

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Well, that's it, I'm going back to church then. Dang it I hate it when I refute my skeptical self. And then that Paul Osborne shows up and does some more. There is just no hope. Joseph got one right! Well, that proves all the rest of everything falls right smack dab into place perfectly. Everything Joseph Smith said and did is now faithful and enduring because... well... Shinehah!
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Re: Jeff Lindsay and Stephen O. Smoot take aim at Dan Vogel over “Shinehah”

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:31 am
Well, that's it, I'm going back to church then. Dang it I hate it when I refute my skeptical self. And then that Paul Osborne shows up and does some more. There is just no hope. Joseph got one right! Well, that proves all the rest of everything falls right smack dab into place perfectly. Everything Joseph Smith said and did is now faithful and enduring because... well... Shinehah!

Never fear, you’re not going to have to go back to church on account of “Shinehah” being a bullseye for Joseph Smith. I will be able to explain everything to you and you’ll be satisfied and grateful. I’m going to activate Vogel’s thread down in the Terrestrial Forum and invite him to come up to Celestial and tell us what he thinks about these latest developments so that board members and those reading here can be better informed.
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"hah"

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Let’s take a look at some instances when Smith employed “hah” in words he invented. This is demonstrated in the very handwriting of Joseph Smith; we are given prime examples from Smith’s “Egyptian Alphabet”, sections which he penned are WRITTEN BY HIS OWN HAND, upon Kirtland Papers. Sound familiar? This is not a copy of a copy. It *is* the prophet Joseph Smith’s own handwriting, purported to be an original autograph of his own workmanship.

Joseph Smith wrote:ho up hah crown of a princess or queen or Stands for queen
Zie oop hah An unmaried woman and a vigin pricess
ho-ee oop hah Crown of a prince or King
ho-ee oop-pha-e hah goverment power or Kingdom


Egyptian Alphabet, circa Early July–circa November 1835–A

The next set of examples of “hah” used for various invented words found on another page of the Egyptian Alphabet, jointly penned by Smith and, Cowdery who was the second elder of the church and acted under the prophet’s direction as his personal scribe. The first half of the page is in Smith’s handwriting and the second half is in Cowdery’s. Let’s look at the “hah” words Cowdery penned for the prophet.

Oliver Cowdery wrote: Dah-tu-hah-dees
Hah-dees
Ho-hah-oop
Io-ho-hah-oop
Io-ho-hah-oop-zip-zi
Jah-Ni-hah

Egyptian Alphabet, circa Early July–circa November 1835–A

From this, it seems clear that the prophet Joseph Smith had a keen interest in using “hah” in many words penned in his Egyptian Alphabet. Also, Facsimile No. 2 contains the word Hah-ko-kau-beam”. This usage, however, is not without precedent because it’s also used in the Book of Mormon:

Ammonihah
Mathonihah
Moronihah
Nephihah
Orihah
Zemnarihah

Mormon apologists have suggested that the ending -hah may be a theophoric element of divinity or deity being affixed to the name. Regardless of apologetic wishful thinking, it could be argued that Smith simply had his eyes on biblical KJV names that end in “hah”:

Bilhah
Ephah
Jogbehah
Nophah
Raphah
Ziphah
Zophah


All of this is information that helps us better piece together the puzzle Smith put together.
Last edited by Shulem on Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shinehah is NOT the sun

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Let’s address the Shinehah issue and determine if it’s really something that supports Joseph Smith’s claims to translate Egyptian. Apologists have found ways to associate Shinehah with the Egyptian word for sun. This thread details two such examples from former Book of Abraham apologists, Shirts and Osborne. Other apologists have presented their own versions available in books, articles, and website presentations. I stress the point that the word Shinehah is NOT the Egyptian word for sun, not by a longshot! It is however, a combination of Egyptian words that express qualities or attributes of how the sun may be perceived or understood. The Egyptian shen + heh have connotations of things that pertain to the sun from certain perspectives. That’s it, nothing more. But it’s NOT the sun and the Egyptians did not refer to the sun as Shinehah as we are led to believe in the Book of Abraham.

One thing apologists fail to recognize is that there is a lack of consistency in attempting to showcase Shinehah as a bullseye or direct hit because it stands out on its own for its own sake. This is where Shinehah gets left out in the cold because it doesn’t get any help from Olea and Kokob which are supposedly Egyptian words for moon and star:

Abraham 3:13 wrote:And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon.

Shinehah, Kokob, and Olea, are supposed to be genuine Egyptian words expressed by Abraham while he was “reasoning upon the principles of Astronomy, in the king’s court.” The claim that they are Egyptian expressions is also supported by other terminology expressed in the Explanations for Facsimile No. 2 which was part of Abraham’s record that he compiled while *in* Egypt:

  • which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh
  • called by the Egyptians Oliblish
  • also a numerical figure, in Egyptian
  • Is called in Egyptian Enish-go-on-dosh
  • is said by the Egyptians to be the Sun

Needless to say, none of the above words are Egyptian. Also, the words Kokob and Olea are NOT Egyptian and are the furthest thing from the real Egyptian words for star and moon. Thus, we see a total lack of consistency! So let’s look at the real Egyptian words for sun, star, and moon:

Sun = ra (ra)
Sundisk = aton (itn)
Star = seba (sbA)
Moon = yiah (iaH)

That pretty much dooms Shinehah because it receives no support from other fictitious astronomical terms given in the Book of Abraham. We now see that converting Smith’s Shinehah into real Egyptian is nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of apologists. It takes the two components that form the word and finds creative ways to link them into expressions that define the sun. That’s all it is, nothing more! It’s more or less a way to make a connection with Smith’s Egyptian translation but it is not a proper translation for the word SUN. Taken as a whole, Smith’s Shinehah, Kokob, and Olea is a complete failure in Egyptian translation. Smith was fooling his readers into thinking those were genuine Egyptian words for important aspects that pertain to astronomy.
Last edited by Shulem on Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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“Take the Shine off Shinehah”

Post by Shulem »

So, how did Joseph Smith come up with “Shinehah” for his invented Egyptian word? Nobody can truly say for sure because nobody knows, but I offer a possible explanation -- and it’s entirely plausible that I’m correct in making a demonstration of how Smith translated. Smith was known to be creative with foreign languages while making expressions. He was interested in Hebrew and dabbled a little with a few foreign words. But could it be that sometimes he just liked to do a play on words for word sake? An example of this that comes immediately to mind is Smith’s definition of the word “Mormon” and his explanation is quite curious:

Joseph Smith, History, May 20, 1843 wrote:We say from the Saxon, good; the Dane, God; the Goth, goda; the German gut; the Dutch, goed; the Latin, bonus; the Greek, kalos; the Hebrew, tob; and the Egyptian, mon. Hence, with the addition of more, or the contraction, mor, we have the word Mormon; which means literally more good.

Yours.

Joseph Smith.

This is a classic example of Smith pretending to understand the Egyptian language and he uses a simple contraction in connection to what he designates as an Egyptian word, “mon” in order to translate Egyptian into English. It’s right there in front of our eyes! You can’t possibly miss it. Come in Houston!

mon = good
mor + mon = Mormon

So now, let’s move on to Shinehah:

Shine + hah = Sun

1) Shine as in sunshine or the sun shines!
2) Hah because it’s biblical and makes it look fancy dancy!

And there you have it! It’s not rocket science. So, what do you think of those apples, Philo? Have I provided sufficient cause to refute the apologists? Are you impressed? lol
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Re: Jeff Lindsay and Stephen O. Smoot take aim at Dan Vogel over “Shinehah”

Post by Moksha »

The apologetic stance from the Book of Abraham theorizes that Shinola was a shoe polish and Shinehah was a Reformed Egyptian word of proto-Uto-Aztecan-Chaldean origin.

Can you prove that Shinola was not a shoe polish used by several Church Presidents? Lindsay and Smoot must have known the difference.

Another word of Reformed Egyptian word of proto-Uto-Aztecan-Chaldean origin is Kimosabe. It was frequently used by the late great Lamanite Tonto in addressing his masked companion. Wonder if Lindsay and Smoot (and even Kerry) could apply a Bayesian analysis to the likelihood of two such words surviving and being linked by this thread?
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