The First Vision

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Shulem
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Jesus visits the Nephites

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The ONE and ONLY God of the Nephites makes his appearance. This is the voice of JESUS CHRIST in heaven announcing his coming to the Nephites as he glorifies the ONLY personal name that was ever given to the Nephites to represent salvation. The only name given whereby mankind could be saved was through the name of Jesus and none other.

3 Nephi 11:7 wrote:Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him.

The God of Israel appears or is manifested in the flesh just as he did in the Old World but this time as a resurrected and glorified Being of flesh and bone. The only reference ever given to God being a Person of flesh and bone is in direct reference to the Son who came down and was crucified and rose from the dead in resurrection. The Father is only ever associated as being a Spirit who does not have a body of flesh and bone but is physically manifested through the Son.

3 Nephi 11:14 wrote:Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.
3 Nphi 11:27 wrote:And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.

The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost “ARE ONE” in a Godhead but the only manifestation of flesh ever given of *that* Godhead is through Jesus only. The Father does not personally manifest as a separate Person of flesh, ever. The Father is never spoken of as a separate Person apart from the Son having his own body of flesh and bone.

3 Nephi 11:32 wrote:And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.

Note how the Son bears record of the Father and the Father bears record of the Son and the Spirit bears record of both. This doctrine shows how ONE PERSON is the Lord and that ONE PERSON is God. Nobody ever saw Two Persons. None of the prophets including Joseph Smith ever testified that the Father has his OWN body of flesh and bones apart from Jesus. This concept was conceived after Joseph Smith got the papyrus. The early doctrine was clear and concise, that the Father and Son were one and bear witness of each other as a single PERSON being manifested in multiple ways and times.
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Moksha
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Re: The First Vision

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Image
Elder L. Paca, from the Argentina South Mission, will speak on the First Vision and its
impact on the new missionary initiative.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Philo Sofee
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Re: The First Vision

Post by Philo Sofee »

Moksha wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:23 am
Image
Elder L. Paca, from the Argentina South Mission, will speak on the First Vision and its
impact on the new missionary initiative.
:lol:
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Re: Nephi Sees God

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:15 pm
Again, the anthropomorphic Book of Mormon God is made manifest, this time to Nephi. This is in line with how Old Testament prophets described God as appearing as a Man but he is none other than the Spirit of the Lord.

1 Nephi 11:2 wrote:And the Spirit said unto me: Behold, what desirest thou?

Note that God himself is speaking to Nephi. It isn’t an angel or some other heavenly being. It is God, the Spirit of the Lord who is speaking.

1 Nephi 11:6 wrote:And when I had spoken these words, the Spirit cried with a loud voice, saying: Hosanna to the Lord, the most high God; for he is God over all the earth, yea, even above all.

God offers self-praises to himself as he is accustomed to do in the bible. It’s Jehovah’s own loud voice of praise. There is no greater praise than God praising himself which is what he was so apt to do!

1 Nephi 11:11 wrote:And I said unto him: To know the interpretation thereof—for I spake unto him as a man speaketh; for I beheld that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another.

All of this is familiar and reminds us of how biblical Jacob and Moses communed with the Lord, face to face just like friends having a conversation. The Spirit is described as being in the form of a man just as other prophets described Jehovah’s appearance when manifesting himself spiritually. This is exactly what Joseph Smith was originally implying as he told the story while speaking from the bottom of a hat.

Like the bible, the Book of Mormon God was a one-man band.
This is all actually seriously profound in light of the archaeology I am now studying of the ancient biblical histories. The current edited version of the Bible we have as I have noted in my recent videos is a carefully crafted edited and highly selective document from a political stance of concerns from the 8-7th centuries B.C. and their views, not what was known or believed in all those earlier centuries. The currently edited Bible we have is based on a later monotheistic concern of the people who defeated all other ideas, and their own monotheism prevailed. It was not the original doctrine by any means as archaeology has now demonstrated.
Would it be ok if I used your materials here for a video? I think your ties into the Book of Mormon as a one person deity are seriously fascinating as you have produced here because they are so much of a later theology instead of any kind of original singular system theology of which Joseph Smith demonstrates. This, to me, clearly shows Joseph Smith did not have a lot of prophetic insights into the actual nature of early Israelite theology. Very good work here Shulem!
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Re: The First Vision

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Shulem wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:35 pm
Joseph Smith, Discourse, 16 June 1844 wrote:
  • I want to reason a little on this subject; I learned it by translating the papyrus which is now in my house.

Indeed, that’s how he “learned it”!

It was the images on the papyrus that influenced Joseph Smith into transitioning into the idea that one God was three different Personages. Smith was ready to take Christianity into a whole new perspective wherein the belief in one God would shift into the Plurality of Gods. Smith confessed (tipped his hand) that he learned it by translating the papyrus, NOT by his First Vision account he recorded in 1832 when he reported to just see a single Person!


Oliver Cowdery, Second Elder of the Church & Assistant to the President, MESSENGER AND ADVOCATE, December 1835 wrote:
The evidence is apparent upon the face, that they were written by persons acquainted with the history of the creation, the fall of man, and more or less of the correct ideas of notions of the Deity. The representation of the god-head-three, yet in one, is curiously drawn to give simply, though impressively, the writers views of that exalted personage.

Image
SERIOUSLY excellent detective work!!! WOW....... dude, I am not worthy of your excellence! May I please make a video (GIVING YOU ABSOLUTELY FULL CREDIT FOR THIS?). I had never put this together like you have. Just wow, this insight is just GIGANTIC! I'm serious, I really want to do a video of this. Shulem you are a treasure!!!
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Shulem
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Re: The First Vision

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:57 pm
SERIOUSLY excellent detective work!!! WOW....... dude, I am not worthy of your excellence! May I please make a video (GIVING YOU ABSOLUTELY FULL CREDIT FOR THIS?). I had never put this together like you have. Just wow, this insight is just GIGANTIC! I'm serious, I really want to do a video of this. Shulem you are a treasure!!!

I feel honored that someone is actually getting something out of my work. YES, by all means, make a video and do anything you want. We are in this together and ideas and information are flowing like a river. Pick up the ball and run with it. Score a touchdown for our team for 6 points!

Moksha can kick for the extra score.

:D
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Re: The First Vision

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:05 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:57 pm
SERIOUSLY excellent detective work!!! WOW....... dude, I am not worthy of your excellence! May I please make a video (GIVING YOU ABSOLUTELY FULL CREDIT FOR THIS?). I had never put this together like you have. Just wow, this insight is just GIGANTIC! I'm serious, I really want to do a video of this. Shulem you are a treasure!!!

I feel honored that someone is actually getting something out of my work. YES, by all means, make a video and do anything you want. We are in this together and ideas and information are flowing like a river. Pick up the ball and run with it. Score a touchdown for our team for 6 points!

Moksha can kick for the extra score.

:D
You guys have already scored the touchdowns and extra points, I am just the cheer leader from the side lines jumping up and down shaking the pom poms screaming my head off that the score is valid!!!
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Shulem
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Re: The First Vision

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:16 pm
You guys have already scored the touchdowns and extra points, I am just the cheer leader from the side lines jumping up and down shaking the pom poms screaming my head off that the score is valid!!!

The part about the Father pointing to the Son is very, very, critical to this whole thing. I will work on a post on that soon enough. I’m afraid that the point of the “pointing” has been overlooked by everyone. Trust Shulem to enlighten you on that one!

Woohoo, another 6 points when the Father pointed to his Son!
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Shulem
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Re: The First Vision

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Joseph Smith emended his story in 1838 to add that Heavenly Father “pointed” at his Beloved Son as they stood above him in the air.

Joseph Smith wrote:When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

In my view, this introduction and form of communication is on a Romper Room level -- it’s like being at Sesame Street. I don’t believe it! You’d think Joseph Smith would have taken it to a higher level without relying on the crude nature of a human body to communicate language from one being to another. Telepathy or exchange of thoughts through the power of mind alone would have been more believable rather than being told God had to actually open his mouth, roll his tongue, and point to someone in order to convey understanding. Words need NOT have been said. Fingers need NOT be pointed. The crude nature of Smith’s testimonial leads me to detect that his understanding of the supernatural and divine was on a level a lot lower than I had previously thought. Joseph Smith was a total fake! He really was a con artist but a very good one at that! The idea of a Heavenly Father with a body having to move lips and point in order to communicate is all the evidence I need from Smith to know he was making it up.

Prior to the 1838 account, nobody had ever heard of Joseph Smith describing Two Persons and how one pointed to the other. Oliver Cowdery had never heard it. Not even Joseph Smith’s own mother. Nobody! The concept of Heavenly Father’s fleshy finger pointing at Jesus is simply NOT true. It never happened. The whole thing was made up out of Joseph Smith’s imagination.
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