.......

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
Elizabeth
Stake President
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:02 pm
Location: .......

.......

Post by Elizabeth »

Beware mis-translations of Bible, when the Bible has been deliberately altered.
Some of these omissions have profound doctrinal implications.

NIV – "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

NKJV –" But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

Mark 11:26 - major doctrinal point
NIV – MISSING.

NKJV – "But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

NIV denies putting gender neutral translations in its own publicity, and a feminist agenda, despite statements from individuals involved. Their own statement sounds great:

Is the NIV Gender Neutral? - NIV Bible

They claim "all [our committee] firmly believe that the original manuscripts are the inspired Word of God and completely free from error, being the work of authors who were directed by the Spirit of God (2 Peter 1:20-21, 2 Timothy 3:16). To bring any type of feminist agenda to their translation work would be to fail in their God-given calling."

Sounds great, it's almost plausible until you look outside their own publicity.

Here's one of those very people who has not brought "any type of feminist agenda" in.
Image

1984 NIV John 14:23 'Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father
will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.'
2011 NIV John 14:23 'Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father
will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.'

This has a double problem. "We will come to him and make our home with him," could refer to Heavenly Father as much as the person who obeys Jesus' teacher, so using a plural pronoun has additional issues.

Over 60,000 words and phrases are deleted in the NIV, mostly those that do not support the mores of the translators. Entire verses are omitted:
Matthew 17:21
Matthew 23:14
Mark 7:16
Mark 9:44
Mark 9:46
Mark 11:26
Mark 15:28
Luke 17:36
John 5:3–4
Acts 8:37
Acts 15:34
Acts 24:6–8
Acts 28:29
Romans 16:24

Not even a footnote in some cases.

The NKJV and NIV disagree on many points, again, the NIV omits Christ:
“And to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things” (NIV).

“And to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ” (NKJV).

Virginia Ramey Mollenkott (see pic above): Literary consultant. Episcopal magazine, Witness (June 1991, pp. 20-23), above she admits,

From a letter she wrote to Michael J. Penfold.

1984 NIV 1 Samuel 18:2 "From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return to his
father’s house."
2011 NIV 1 Samuel 18:2 "From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return home
to his family."

1984 NIV Psalm 8:4 "what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for
him?"
2011 NIV Psalm 8:4 "what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care
for them?" (Obvious issue here is that phrase the "son of man" has particular resonance)

The NIV (2011) changes “Women” to “weaklings’ in verses like Nahum 3:13; Isa. 19:16; Jer. 50:37; and Jer.51:30.
Last edited by Elizabeth on Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
huckelberry
God
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Re: Signs Of Our Times.

Post by huckelberry »

Elizabeth,
I prefer Revised Standard Version but I do not think other version particularly bad. It is good to have a version which has some explanations about the text. There are a lot of different ancient manuscripts and zero original manuscripts. Annotations in a good Bible will point out variations in the various texts. Alternate readings exist in various sources. There is no possible way to be sure which is the best choice of reading so it might be helpful to be aware of the variations.

A random example Mark 9;44 or 46 are skipped in Revised Standard. There is a note saying verses 44 and 46 are skipped as identical to verse 48 and are omitted by best ancient authorities. (manuscripts from which we receive the Bible).
Elizabeth
Stake President
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:02 pm
Location: .......

Re: Signs of Our Times.

Post by Elizabeth »

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil:

for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever."

Search | The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Elizabeth
Stake President
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:02 pm
Location: .......

Signs of Our Times.

Post by Elizabeth »

A favourite of mine from my Sunday School days :D

1.
Jesus wants me for a sunbeam,
To shine for him each day;
In every way try to please him,
At home, at school, at play.

• [Chorus]
A sunbeam, a sunbeam,
Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.
A sunbeam, a sunbeam,
I’ll be a sunbeam for him.

2.
Jesus wants me to be loving
And kind to all I see,
Showing how pleasant and happy
His little one can be.

• [Chorus]
A sunbeam, a sunbeam,
Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.
A sunbeam, a sunbeam,
I’ll be a sunbeam for him.

Words: Nellie Talbot
Music: Edwin O. Excell.
.
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 6129
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: Signs of Our Times.

Post by Res Ipsa »

Elizabeth wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:07 am
A favourite of mine from my Sunday School days :D

1.
Jesus wants me for a sunbeam,
To shine for him each day;
In every way try to please him,
At home, at school, at play.

• [Chorus]
A sunbeam, a sunbeam,
Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.
A sunbeam, a sunbeam,
I’ll be a sunbeam for him.

2.
Jesus wants me to be loving
And kind to all I see,
Showing how pleasant and happy
His little one can be.

• [Chorus]
A sunbeam, a sunbeam,
Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.
A sunbeam, a sunbeam,
I’ll be a sunbeam for him.

Words: Nellie Talbot
Music: Edwin O. Excell.
.
That was one of my favorites from primary, along with Give, Said the Little Stream, Popcorn Popping on the Apricot Tree, and The Golden Plates. I liked the idea of being a Sunbeam.
he/him
"Everything we see hides another thing, we always want to see what is hidden by what we see."
– Rene Magritte
Elizabeth
Stake President
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:02 pm
Location: .......

Re: Signs of Our Times.

Post by Elizabeth »

Yes, Res Ipsa, and it is an inspiration to us even now. :)
You may think my Sunday School days were LDS.. but no, I was Christened and Confirmed Anglican, and attended Anglican, Methodist, and Salvation Army Sunday Schools. Married in the Anglican Church, the Elders came to my door when my eldest child was a baby.
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 6129
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: Signs of Our Times.

Post by Res Ipsa »

Elizabeth wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:58 am
Yes, Res Ipsa, and it is an inspiration to us even now. :)
You may think my Sunday School days were LDS.. but no, I was Christened and Confirmed Anglican, and attended Anglican, Methodist, and Salvation Army Sunday Schools. Married in the Anglican Church, the Elders came to my door when my eldest child was a baby.
Cool. I was raised LDS and it wasn’t until I started church shopping that I realized how many songs that I had assumed were unique to the LDS Church were sung in other churches too.

I’ve attended Anglican and Methodist services, but none in connection with the Salvation Army. Were there differences that you noticed?
he/him
"Everything we see hides another thing, we always want to see what is hidden by what we see."
– Rene Magritte
Elizabeth
Stake President
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:02 pm
Location: .......

Re: Signs of Our Times.

Post by Elizabeth »

No differences that I noticed at the time :)

It was just fun, Scripture stories, singing, Sunday School picnics, friends :D

As a youth: Bible studies, conferences and dances, singing hymns at hospitals, convalescent homes, and around the streets.

I also assisted at Bill Graham Crusades... guiding converts up the aisles to the strains of "I come".
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 6129
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: Signs of Our Times.

Post by Res Ipsa »

Elizabeth wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:29 am
No differences that I noticed at the time :)

It was just fun, Scripture stories, singing, Sunday School picnics, friends :D

As a youth: Bible studies, conferences and dances, singing hymns at hospitals, convalescent homes, and around the streets.

I also assisted at Bill Graham Crusades... guiding converts up the aisles to the strains of "I come".
I always loved the singing. Even though I haven’t been LDS for decades, I often sing a rousing hymn while hiking when I get tired. Firm as the Mountains Around Us does wonders for my pace.
he/him
"Everything we see hides another thing, we always want to see what is hidden by what we see."
– Rene Magritte
Elizabeth
Stake President
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:02 pm
Location: .......

Re: Signs of Our Times.

Post by Elizabeth »

Yes, it is amazing how words from long ago come back to us in a song.
Post Reply