How Many Mummies?

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Ryan Larsen
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How Many Mummies?

Post by Ryan Larsen »

Hi guys! I haven’t caught up on forum activity yet, but I was thinking about something this morning and maybe some of you (Shulem? BYP?) might have info I haven’t considered.

We know Emma sold 4 mummies. But do we know that Joseph bought only 4?

I realize a logical case could be made that Joseph purchased only 4, but do we have anything solid?

Some eyewitness reported seeing more than 4, and we generally “correct” their testimony by saying they were wrong. But in the interest of being thorough, it seems possible that 4 mummies were usually displayed but that more than that were kept in the back somewhere, perhaps because they were unsightly or something.

Chandler had a couple more mummies, which aren’t accounted for.

What’s the best case for 4?
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Shulem
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Re: How Many Mummies?

Post by Shulem »

Ryan Larsen wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:53 pm
Hi guys! I haven’t caught up on forum activity yet, but I was thinking about something this morning and maybe some of you (Shulem? BYP?) might have info I haven’t considered.

We know Emma sold 4 mummies. But do we know that Joseph bought only 4?

I realize a logical case could be made that Joseph purchased only 4, but do we have anything solid?

Some eyewitness reported seeing more than 4, and we generally “correct” their testimony by saying they were wrong. But in the interest of being thorough, it seems possible that 4 mummies were usually displayed but that more than that were kept in the back somewhere, perhaps because they were unsightly or something.

Chandler had a couple more mummies, which aren’t accounted for.

What’s the best case for 4?

The Church purchased four (4) mummies. That has been established by historians who have researched this subject. Here is supporting evidence to the facts:

JOSEPH SMITH wrote:On the 3rd of July Michael H. Chandler came to Kirtland to exhibit some Egyptian mummies. There were four human figures, together with some two or more rolls of papyrus covered with hieroglyphic figures and devices. As Mr. Chandler had been told I could translate them, he brought me some of the characters, and I gave him the interpretation, and like a gentleman, he gave me the following certificate:
JOSIAH QUINCY wrote:These receptacles Smith opened, and disclosed four human bodies, shrunken and black with age.
W.W. Phelps wrote:The last of June four Egyptian mummies were brought here; there were two papyrus rolls, besides some other ancient Egyptian writings with them
THE ACADEMIC REVIEW., Brigham Young Academy, Provo Utah, March 1885 wrote:The mummies were identified as those of a king, a queen, a princess, and a slave.
Ryan Larsen
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Re: How Many Mummies?

Post by Ryan Larsen »

Shulem wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:33 pm
Ryan Larsen wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:53 pm
Hi guys! I haven’t caught up on forum activity yet, but I was thinking about something this morning and maybe some of you (Shulem? BYP?) might have info I haven’t considered.

We know Emma sold 4 mummies. But do we know that Joseph bought only 4?

I realize a logical case could be made that Joseph purchased only 4, but do we have anything solid?

Some eyewitness reported seeing more than 4, and we generally “correct” their testimony by saying they were wrong. But in the interest of being thorough, it seems possible that 4 mummies were usually displayed but that more than that were kept in the back somewhere, perhaps because they were unsightly or something.

Chandler had a couple more mummies, which aren’t accounted for.

What’s the best case for 4?

The Church purchased four (4) mummies. That has been established by historians who have researched this subject. Here is supporting evidence to the facts:

JOSEPH SMITH wrote:On the 3rd of July Michael H. Chandler came to Kirtland to exhibit some Egyptian mummies. There were four human figures, together with some two or more rolls of papyrus covered with hieroglyphic figures and devices. As Mr. Chandler had been told I could translate them, he brought me some of the characters, and I gave him the interpretation, and like a gentleman, he gave me the following certificate:
JOSIAH QUINCY wrote:These receptacles Smith opened, and disclosed four human bodies, shrunken and black with age.
W.W. Phelps wrote:The last of June four Egyptian mummies were brought here; there were two papyrus rolls, besides some other ancient Egyptian writings with them
THE ACADEMIC REVIEW., Brigham Young Academy, Provo Utah, March 1885 wrote:The mummies were identified as those of a king, a queen, a princess, and a slave.
Okay, perfect. I just wanted to rule that out. Thank you, my friend.
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Shulem
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Re: How Many Mummies?

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Ryan Larsen wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:46 pm
Okay, perfect. I just wanted to rule that out. Thank you, my friend.

Does that mean I win the argument?

;)

:lol:
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Moksha
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Re: How Many Mummies?

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:33 pm
THE ACADEMIC REVIEW., Brigham Young Academy, Provo Utah, March 1885 wrote:The mummies were identified as those of a king, a queen, a princess, and a slave.
Even by 1985, the Academic Review at BYU was unable to get this right. Lack of adequate learning at that university?
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Shulem
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Re: How Many Mummies?

Post by Shulem »

Moksha wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:51 am
Shulem wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:33 pm
Even by 1985, the Academic Review at BYU was unable to get this right. Lack of adequate learning at that university?

The Academy at Brigham Young in 1885 was a full generation away from when the Book of Abraham was actually published but there were people still alive at the time that remember the circumstances and things people said about the Book of Abraham. Word of mouth and passing information down has to be taken into consideration. Also, there is certainly more written on this subject that is not available at this time.

The bit about the slave is interesting. How on earth was it determined that one of the mummies was a slave? Who came to that determination and how? The determination that the mummies were of a royal family surely originated from Nauvoo and only the prophet Joseph Smith could have authored that kind of definitive statement.

When it comes to the papyrus and mummies, Smith was wrong in everything he ever said about them. Joseph Smith didn’t know what he was talking about. He was wrong, wrong, wrong about everything. But his greatest blunder and error was dating Egypt’s beginnings to Ham’s family in 2,200 BC being blissfully unaware that ancient Egypt has a much longer history than granted by Jewish records and that Pre-dynastic Egyptian history had a span of thousands of years. But Smith didn’t know that. Apparently, Egyptologist John Gee doesn’t either.
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Moksha
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Re: How Many Mummies?

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:57 pm
The Academy at Brigham Young in 1885 ...
Yikes, I read this as 1985. Nevermind. Still, I can't help but think they would stand behind the mistakes of yesteryear.
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Shulem
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Re: How Many Mummies?

Post by Shulem »

Moksha wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:08 pm
Shulem wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:57 pm
The Academy at Brigham Young in 1885 ...
Yikes, I read this as 1985. Nevermind. Still, I can't help but think they would stand behind the mistakes of yesteryear.

As far as I know BYU has not set the record straight about the so-called mummy slave. Neither has the Church set the record straight about the so-called slave in Facsimile No. 3. Both the institution of BYU and the Church are in error to this day.

Right?
Ryan Larsen
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Re: How Many Mummies?

Post by Ryan Larsen »

Shulem wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:54 pm
Ryan Larsen wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:46 pm
Okay, perfect. I just wanted to rule that out. Thank you, my friend.

Does that mean I win the argument?

;)

:lol:
Haha well I wasn’t arguing for a position, so I don’t see how it would be a win. Although when we share reliable info, we both win!
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Shulem
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Re: How Many Mummies?

Post by Shulem »

Ryan Larsen wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:04 pm
Haha well I wasn’t arguing for a position, so I don’t see how it would be a win. Although when we share reliable info, we both win!

I agree. But do let me know if you find out anything juicy that I don't already know!

:lol:
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