Book of Mormon Geography

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Zosimus
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Re: River Sidon and the Ace of Hearts

Post by Zosimus »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:05 pm
Hmmm. Hard to say. Where is Smith’s river Sidon?
No telling what map had inspired the geography. It was probably more than one. But this is one map of the Quedas that could have worked. Note that it is titled as a map of Molucche, very close to the spelling of Muloch, and the first inhabitants of Zarahemla, in the Printer's Manuscript:

Mosiah 25:2
P: Muloch
1830-1858: Mulok
1879-1888, 1902-1907, 1911-1920, 1981: Mulek

Mosiah 25:2
P: Muloch
1830-1858: Mulok
1879-1888, 1902-1907, 1911-1920, 1981: Mulek

Image

Here's another variation with the river running south into what would be the sea west, similar to your Delmarva map:

Image

Another map of the islands has Lamanite as a toponym:

Image

Again, no telling what maps were used. It was probably a combination of maps and Arabic geographies. There are hundreds of variations.
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Shulem
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Lamanite

Post by Shulem »

Zosimus wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:30 pm
Another map of the islands has Lamanite as a toponym:

Image

Again, no telling what maps were used. It was probably a combination of maps and Arabic geographies. There are hundreds of variations.
Zosimus,

You will appreciate these maps with Lamanite marked in blue and you can zoom about the whole region and it’s crystal clear:

Lamanite

Lamanite
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Zosimus
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Re: Lamanite

Post by Zosimus »

Shulem wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2023 12:37 am
You will appreciate these maps with Lamanite marked in blue and you can zoom about the whole region and it’s crystal clear:
From the map you linked to, there are a few other features that are key to a Book of Mormon geography, And another toponym:

Image

But let's not lose track of the fact that Marong/Maroni was "a Siamese word used in their astrological or astronomical works. It is applied to a man who can by supernatural means assume any shape he pleases." A Buddhist Priest of Siam once told James Low that Marong/Maroni was also a "title bestowed on a military chief - and also signifies a person who can preternaturally change his appearance.”

Maroni is how Joseph originally spelled the name of the military chief that was charged with guarding the golden treasure. According to some early accounts, the treasure guardian was a bloody ghost or some such being that changed appearance.

This can't be easily skipped over, although every Mormon scholar I've talked to seems content to do so.
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Shulem
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Re: Lamanite

Post by Shulem »

Zosimus wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:38 am
From the map you linked to, there are a few other features that are key to a Book of Mormon geography, And another toponym:
Believe me when I say that Moro jumped out like a sore thumb as the book of Ether place name for “Moron”.

As you know, I likened the Land of Many Waters as fresh water bodies connected to fresh rivers when playing the Ace of Clubs and demonstrated in several posts how those waters are fresh water systems located far north of the narrow neck. And it certainly can be said that the narrow neck at Malay is narrow unlike that of Mesoamerica. No arguments there. And the necks presented by Heartland apologists are wrongly situated and with incorrect orientation.
Zosimus wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:38 am
This can't be easily skipped over, although every Mormon scholar I've talked to seems content to do so.
The apologists operate within the field of cognitive dissonance in order to preserve their testimonies at any cost. Their behavior and reasoning in trying to fit a square peg into a round hole is the result of concluding the Book of Mormon is a historical and genuine record rather than fiction which Smith invented by pooling information from various sources.

I will play the Ace of Spades and Joker all in good time and turn the game over on its head. That will be fun! And, no worries with Manti. It will all work out, you’ll see.

The trap has been set. I dare Gardner or Peterson to step foot near it.
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Official Statement from the Church Website wrote: Book of Mormon Geography

The Book of Mormon includes a history of an ancient people who migrated from the Near East to the Americas. This history contains information about the places they lived, including descriptions of landforms, natural features, and the distances and cardinal directions between important points. The internal consistency of these descriptions is one of the striking features of the Book of Mormon.
Indeed, “information about the places they lived” is very descriptive in the text and contains precise detail in some circumstances that combine distances and directions between important points that could be traced on a map. Internal consistency is key in understanding exactly how the text can correspond to a real map in which matches the exact locations in question. Some “striking features” stick out like sore thumbs and must be found on the map in order to validate their actual existence or whether they are just pure fantasy.

Does the Mormon church embrace scientific discovery and determine things that are proven based on facts and evidence or does the Church prefer to live in a world of fantasy and faith because it knows there is no way to match the geography of the Book of Mormon anywhere on the hemisphere other than at Delmarva? That is a loaded question!

How fascinating it would be if the President of the Church (a coward) would stand up and deny any possibility of Delmarva being the actual geographical place described in the Book of Mormon! I dare the Church to take a stand! I dare the Church to eliminate that possibility by so-called divine pronouncement. But the Church won’t do that. The Church will NOT eliminate Delmarva from being a possible candidate for the Book of Mormon.

Why?

Answer is below:

If the Church were to deny one place then it would find itself in the position to deny another and so on.
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

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Still waiting for the "prophets, seers, and revelators" to cough up the truth about the Book of Mormon geography.

Why won't they just do it? Is Heavenly Father testing us?

In the scientific age, seems counter-productive. After all, isn't Heavenly Father a master scientist?
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by yellowstone123 »

Shulem has great thoughts. But again, my paternal grandfather traveled a narrow neck of land to see my paternal grandmother in Toronto. Only those whose families have lived in Utah since Brigham Young would think Book of Mormon lands are not even on the American Continent or even in this hemisphere.

Now if you want to see a real Book of Mormon movie watch Mel Gibson's Apocalypto.
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by High Spy »

bill4long wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:44 am
Still waiting for the "prophets, seers, and revelators" to cough up the truth about the Book of Mormon geography.

Why won't they just do it? Is Heavenly Father testing us?

In the scientific age, seems counter-productive. After all, isn't Heavenly Father a master scientist?
https://slogbog.com/viewtopic.php?p=176 ... irit#p1763
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Marcus »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2024 7:10 pm
Official Statement from the Church Website wrote: Book of Mormon Geography

The Book of Mormon includes a history of an ancient people who migrated from the Near East to the Americas. This history contains information about the places they lived, including descriptions of landforms, natural features, and the distances and cardinal directions between important points. The internal consistency of these descriptions is one of the striking features of the Book of Mormon.
Indeed, “information about the places they lived” is very descriptive in the text and contains precise detail in some circumstances that combine distances and directions between important points that could be traced on a map. Internal consistency is key in understanding exactly how the text can correspond to a real map in which matches the exact locations in question. Some “striking features” stick out like sore thumbs and must be found on the map in order to validate their actual existence or whether they are just pure fantasy.

Does the Mormon church embrace scientific discovery and determine things that are proven based on facts and evidence or does the Church prefer to live in a world of fantasy and faith because it knows there is no way to match the geography of the Book of Mormon anywhere on the hemisphere other than at Delmarva? That is a loaded question!

How fascinating it would be if the President of the Church (a coward) would stand up and deny any possibility of Delmarva being the actual geographical place described in the Book of Mormon! I dare the Church to take a stand! I dare the Church to eliminate that possibility by so-called divine pronouncement. But the Church won’t do that. The Church will NOT eliminate Delmarva from being a possible candidate for the Book of Mormon.

Why?

Answer is below:

If the Church were to deny one place then it would find itself in the position to deny another and so on.
Excellent point. The leaders know they can't support historicity.
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Shulem
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Marcus wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:54 pm
Excellent point. The leaders know they can't support historicity.
The Mormon leaders are powerless to say where Book of Mormon lands are or where they are not. Their mouths remain shut and for good reason. Let them not speak a word! Silence is golden. :)

I bear my testimony that I know the Book of Mormon is fiction. I know that by the POWER of God! I defy the world (moreover the Mormon church) to refute me.

;)
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