Book of Mormon Geography

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
Post Reply
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Cowardly Lion wrote:
Shulem makes a great point!

Image


Yes I do, now enjoy your courage.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Scarecrow wrote:
The seas on two sides of the narrow neck make for a path leading from the peninsula to the continent up north!

Image


By George, I think he's got it.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Tinman wrote:
Shulem was right.

Image

User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Toto wrote:
Grrrrrrr, (bites wiener off stick)

Image


Oh, Toto, that’s not....polite!
User avatar
dan vogel
CTR A
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:37 am

Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by dan vogel »

Shulem,

I'll try to respond specifically to your posts tomorrow. Meanwhile, you should think about this: why would Joseph Smith need to write about a neck and lands northward and southward if he wasn't influenced by the Mound Builder Myth? There was no requirement for him to find a limited geography with those dimensions. What in the world would have made Joseph Smith follow the geography you propose? He didn't need a limited geography that mimicked hemispheric geography, the apologists do.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

dan vogel wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:57 am
Shulem,

I'll try to respond specifically to your posts tomorrow. Meanwhile, you should think about this: why would Joseph Smith need to write about a neck and lands northward and southward if he wasn't influenced by the Mound Builder Myth? There was no requirement for him to find a limited geography with those dimensions. What in the world would have made Joseph Smith follow the geography you propose? He didn't need a limited geography that mimicked hemispheric geography, the apologists do.

Take all the time you need, Dan. There is no rush so please don’t feel pressured. I’m going to the zoo tomorrow! :D Here in the Celestial forum we can be at ease and go at whatever pace floats our boat. You don’t even have to respond if you you care not to. Nobody will pressure you to do so. I’m not sure I understand your questions above and will have to think about it. I don’t recall ever associating the Book of Mormon production (beginning 1828) being influenced by the Mound Builder Myth and really don’t see the relevance one way or the other.
User avatar
bill4long
2nd Counselor
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:56 am

Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by bill4long »

Shulem wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:50 am
I don’t recall ever associating the Book of Mormon production (beginning 1828) being influenced by the Mound Builder Myth and really don’t see the relevance one way or the other.
Ethan Smith. View of the Hebrews. Et al. What?

The Hebrews-as-Mound-Builders was part of the general public consciousness (milieu.) This is easy to demonstrate and not at all contraversial.

What are you trying to say? That Joe (and whoever else was involved) was not influenced by the Hebrews-as-Mound-Builders myth?
The views and opinions expressed by Bill4Long could be wrong and are subject to change at any time. Viewer discretion is advised.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

bill4long wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:40 am
Shulem wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:50 am
I don’t recall ever associating the Book of Mormon production (beginning 1828) being influenced by the Mound Builder Myth and really don’t see the relevance one way or the other.
Ethan Smith. View of the Hebrews. Et al. What?

The Hebrews-as-Mound-Builders was part of the general public consciousness (milieu.) This is easy to demonstrate and not at all contraversial.

What are you trying to say? That Joe (and whoever else was involved) was not influenced by the Hebrews-as-Mound-Builders myth?

bill4long ,

Last year Radio Free Mormon released a podcast on VIEW OF THE HEBREWS and I recall it being a reasonable and well thought out presentation. Too me, as usual, RFM makes a lot of sense and I rarely if ever disagree with him. But as he noted in his podcast, he finally took the time to read View of the Hebrews which is a lengthy piece of work I’ve not read, nor have I any desire to read it. So, I’m not qualified to comment on it because I don’t know what I’m talking about. Apparently, as you mention above, there are other novels and theories that compete with View of the Hebrews -- themes that center around the early inhabitants and theories involving their origins and existence was a matter of discussion for those who had interest. What interest Smith may have had in any of those works is something I am not prepared to say because I simply don’t know, at least not at this time. But it all seems rather moot to me and I don’t really care. Smith was ambitious and wanted to outperform and outdo anything that competed with him and he desired to become a prophet to the world. He wanted to usurp the authority of the Catholic church and he wanted to outperform the Reformation. And, he wanted to write a book better than any other volume of scripture or fiction or, whatever. The Book of Mormon was his means to introduce to the world a new Bible which would compliment the old one and anything God ever said.

RFM, where are you? Get your sorry celestial ;) in this thread now before I bop you over the head with my celestial ;) !

Ugh.

:|
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

dan vogel wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:23 pm
Joseph may have been vague about the book’s geography until after he concluded to have the resurrected Jesus visit America (Al. 7:8; 16:20). The book no longer centered on God’s dealings with a family that had migrated to America but was a history of the Western Hemisphere. Anticipating Jesus' visit to the New World, the Book of Mormon began to take on a monumental quality with a geography to match. However, this sudden introduction of hemispheric geography, while consistent with the mound-builder myth, created problems of distance. Mormon’s account of the Limhi expedition from the city of Nephi, now located in the “land southward,” to the site of the Jaredite destruction somewhere in the Aland northward," contains unrealistic distances considering that the group was looking for the nearby city of Zarahemla, especially if Smith equated the Aland among many waters" with the Great Lakes Region (see Mos. 8:8 11; 21:25 26).

Dan,

I just listened again to the podcast (3 ½ hour) hosted by Mormon Stories featuring Radio Free Mormon’s presentation and synopsis of VIEW OF THE HEBREWS. RFM’s does an excellent job explaining everything from a historical, apologetic, and critical point of view. If you missed this podcast you need to listen to it because I pretty much agree with all of it and find that it works wonderfully in supporting the alternative view of a Delmarva geography adopted for the purpose of the basic background template in which to build the story for the book.

Perhaps I should shoot RFM a message and encourage him to offer his two-cents about this thread. So far, he has resisted any commentary about Delmarva and refuses to discuss it. For what reason I can’t say, probably doesn’t want to engage me because he doesn’t want to chance a relentless tackling to the ground and merciless pummeling.

RFM, I promise I won’t beat you up. Just come on in and tell us what you think. I’ll play nice. (Fingers crossed)

:)
User avatar
dan vogel
CTR A
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:37 am

Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by dan vogel »

Shulem,
In just 35 minutes you could have learned a lot about the Mound Builder Myth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTOWAgNDIDE&t=51s

Joseph Smith borrowed the historical framework of the Book of Mormon from this myth. It was the assumption of his time. It wasn't necessarily linked to the Hebrew origin of the Indians, but Ethan Smith combined both in his book.

The Myth posits that because the Indians were too primitive to have constructed the ancient ruins and mounds in south, central, and north America, a superior white-skinned race was responsible for them. The myth ends with the white race being destroyed by the Indians in a tremendous war in the Great Lakes Region. The mounds were believed to contain the bodies of the Mound Builders.

The Myth was a projection of the white settlers' fears and justified keeping the Indians in check. It also served as a warning to Americans to repent or God would allow the Indians to do the same thing to them. The Book of Mormon tapped into this myth. It pertained to all the Indians, and all the ruins and mounds were the work of a single race.
Post Reply