Book of Mormon Geography

[yellowstone123]

Remember, Shulem, my grandpa use to travel from Rochester NY via a narrow neck of land to see my grandma in Toronto. My pop and grandpa use to hunt deer n the Finger Lakes area. It’s a beautiful area with great fishing. Even Vermont is above New York. Of course BYU scholars will take you into the Southern Hemisphere where they have a good feeling it’s okay to cross the stream, but piranha may act differently and go after tendons. And what’s all this D.C. Area suggestion when it’s Niagara Falls. I guess to keep your job you need outlandish theories and junk science to support it.

[Shulem]

You’d think that if the Niagara Peninsula was the narrow neck in the Book of Mormon that something would have been said about the Niagara River that cuts through it but instead we are informed that it’s a solid neck of land with sea flanking the east and west sides (not north and south). Niagara Falls is unquestionable the most amazing waterfall in North America which is certain death for anything who falls therefrom unless they are very lucky and safely tucked inside a barrel.

I trust your grandpa traversed the narrow neck using a car and drove over a bridge in order to get to the other side. Or did he ride in a barrel?

[yellowstone123]

I say this:…:)

[Shulem]

INTRODUCTION

The river Sidon is a thorn and an issue that the apologists have tripped over since day one in trying to understand and calculate a realistic geographical location for that river within their various models. However, much like the narrow neck with its 1 day width and 1 ½ day length, Sidon’s characteristics have remained an enigma for apologists who desperately look for a way to fit Sidon into their geographic puzzles. But false ideas and misinterpretations of the text have turned their models on their heads and they result in monstrosities that do not resemble the definition of the text.

Apologists have correctly reasoned (by the text) that Sidon originates its headwaters in the interior of the land -- in the middle of the peninsula beginning at Manti. Yes, Manti is the source of the river Sidon and the area round about that source is the land of Manti. Everything that flows away from Manti is the watery current that finds its way to the sea.

The river Sidon is never mentioned anywhere NORTH of Manti.

So, if you guessed that Sidon is the Ace of Hearts, you guessed correct.

This thread has already covered a lot of material about Manti and the river Sidon. But a closer look and more in depth look is now justified in order to validate my claims.

Let’s review…

[yellowstone123]

What was North, South, East and West in 30 A.D.

[Shulem]

What was North, South, East and West in 30 A.D.

Cardinal directions in 600 BC or 30 AD were the same as they are today. Nothing has changed. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. The north star is ever in the north sky. Astronomy and cardinal directions are a fixed principle since the beginning of time. Jesus said that “they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.” We are informed that at the birth of Jesus, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem because they had seen his star in the east.

Jesus paid tribute to both king Solomon and Queen Sheba of Arabia saying “The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon.”

There are many New Testament examples that confirm that cardinal directions of north, east, south, and west, meant the same as they do today. I do not think it necessary to continue as your question has been answered.

[yellowstone123]

True..!

[Limnor]

The headwaters of the Chagrin River are located near Mantua. Mantua sounds an awful lot like Manti if you ask me. The Chagrin River then passes near Kirtland on the west, and a branch of the Chagrin runs north of Kirtland.

What does that mean? I’d suggest it means Kirtland is disguised as Zarahemla, the first “gathering place” of saints.

[Shulem]

The headwaters of the Chagrin River are located near Mantua. Mantua sounds an awful lot like Manti if you ask me. The Chagrin River then passes near Kirtland on the west, and a branch of the Chagrin runs north of Kirtland.

What does that mean?

Limnor,

Seriously, it means absolutely nothing to me. Mantua is not Manti and Kirtland is not Zarahemla. Absolutely not! Neither is the Chagrin River a substitute for Sidon which does not match or align with the rest of the geography outlined in the text as explained in this thread.

The river Sidon led to the sea (OCEAN WATER) in which the bones of the dead who were cast into the river made their way to the “depths of the sea.” This is indicative of ocean water -- the great brine and pays no notion whatsoever to fresh water Lake Erie! Your theory is DOA because those bones could not have been deposited in ocean water -- the sea and the definition of that sea is clearly defined throughout Book of Mormon text which serves as the book’s own dictionary reference.

And now, you have forced me to have to play one of my high cards which I’ve been holding on to. It relates to Book of Mormon geography and hidden terms within the text that identify the sea and consequently dismisses the Heartland theory narrow neck of land. How so? The fresh water that flanks the narrow neck of land in the Heartland model cannot qualify as sea water! Why? Lake water is not the sea in Book of Mormon terms.

My thread entitled “Wither she did go” ?? explains how the feminine use (She & Her) to describe those who launch ships at sea is exactly what mariners use to describe ships at sea and Joseph Smith picked that up from Late War.

This is a crushing blow against the Heartland narrow neck models! The narrow neck must be flanked by sea water because the terminology used by modern mariners is employed in the text.

Doc, are you there?

[Shulem]

So, it’s a double whammy against the Heartlander’s theory: A river wherein the bones of dead bodies can never be buried at sea and a narrow neck in which Hagoth’s ship cannot be launched into the sea and sail forth into a bay that consists of ocean water.

This is my one-two punch! The Heartland model is NOT what Joseph Smith used to formulate Book of Mormon geography!

I so testify.