Book of Mormon Geography

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Shulem
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Re: This Land

Post by Shulem »

2 Nephi, Chapter 1:

Nephi told his brethren that the land of promise is a land which is “choice above all other lands” and was given to them by covenant and that his seed would receive it by an inheritance through that covenant of promise. Nephi explicitly stated “this land given unto me” was a blessing from the Lord and to his children forever, as well as to people who would be led out of other countries by the providence of God. Nephi stated categorically how the land was consecrated, and no one would come unto this land unless the were brought here by the hand of God! The promised land was consecrated as a “land of liberty” upon which the inhabitants would be blessed forever by keeping the commandments of God. He was promised that the land would be kept from the knowledge of all other nations in order to prevent others from claiming the land outside the bounds of God’s covenant and prevent them from overrunning the land in which to ensure that Nephi’s seed may dwell safely forever.

Nephi also prophesied that when his seed would dwindle in unbelief the promises would be revoked and judgement would follow. The prophecy was that “other nations” (Europeans) would be empowered and come to the land of promise “this land” and take it for their own possession and scatter and smite the unrighteous seed of Nephi (American Indians).

The geography and theme of the Book of Mormon is very clear to me.
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Shulem
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Re: This Land

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According to the message of the Book of Mormon, indigenous peoples living in the American continent prior to European colonization are direct descendants of Book of Mormon peoples. They are a remnant of the house of Israel, thus literal descendants of the children of Israel. Later, Jews and Gentiles of the Old World would migrate to the American continent to inherit the land and fulfill prophecy which included the scattering of the natives of this land: “But, behold, in the  last days, or in the days of the Gentiles—yea, behold all the nations of the Gentiles and also the Jews, both those who shall come upon this land...” (2 Nephi 27:1)

Prophecy involving these event name three classes of people:

1. Remnants of house of Israel
2. Jews
3. Gentiles

Pointers from 2 Nephi 10:
  • “But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles shall be blessed upon the land”
  • “And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the Gentiles. And I will fortify this land against all other nations”
  • “Wherefore, I will  consecrate this land unto thy seed, and them who shall be numbered among thy seed, forever, for the land of their inheritance; for it is a choice land, saith God unto me, above all other lands”

This land can only be America proper. It is the only land in which the indigenous peoples (Indians) met both Jew and Gentile during Joseph Smith’s ministry. The land of liberty is the great American experiment leading up to the formation of the nation itself wherein there would be no kings. America would be fortified against all other nations -- including Mexico in which the USA fought in 1846! How hardly could Mexico, a land once ruled by monarchs, be included in the land of promise. It was not!

“This land” pays no reference to Mexico or nations south thereof such as those in South America. The prophecy references the Indians, Jews, and Gentiles in North America. Remnants of the house of Israel living in the lands of Mexico and South America are not discussed from this viewpoint. The action takes place in the NORTH.
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Moksha »

This land is mine, God gave this land to me
This brave, this golden land to me
And when the morning sun reveals her hills and plain
I see a land where children can polygamize.

So take my hand and walk this land with me
And walk the narrow neck with me
Though I am just a Nephite when you are by my side
With God’s own hand, I know I can polygamize.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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bill4long
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by bill4long »

Moksha wrote:
Tue May 02, 2023 8:42 am
This land is mine, God gave this land to me
This brave, this golden land to me
And when the morning sun reveals her hills and plain
I see a land where children can polygamize.

So take my hand and walk this land with me
And walk the narrow neck with me
Though I am just a Nephite when you are by my side
With God’s own hand, I know I can polygamize.
My bosom is burning

Image
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Shulem
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Moksha wrote:
Tue May 02, 2023 8:42 am
This land is mine, God gave this land to me

Exactly, right on!

The whole purpose of this thread is to demonstrate how Joseph Smith’s theme for the Book of Mormon shows how the very land of the Book of Mormon was literally under his own feet beginning at Cumorah including the main body of the US leading to the eastern seaboard. I’ve explained how Smith pretended to speak for the characters in the book to include Nephi, Alma, Mormon, and Moroni -- whose land under their feet was the same land as under the feet of the choice seer who would translate the work on the same land in the last days.

Look, there is a difference or an opposite to “this land” which just so happens to be “that land” and in the geography so noted in the Book of Mormon “that land” is Mexico and anything to the south. The opposite of “this” is “that” or the opposite of “here” is “there.” Thus, we have “here” at Cumorah and Delmarva which comprise the so-called 200 x 400 area in which apologists are searching for and the “there” is anywhere else such as Mexico or Chile for that matter.

It’s an open and shut case in using this base terminology to describe the land under the feet of the persons discussed in the Book of Mormon and how that relates to the land that was under the feet of Joseph Smith during his ministry in preparing the land for the return of Jesus Christ which obviously never happened and never will.

There is a clear difference between “this” and “that” because the Book of Mormon is all about “this”, not that! One could provide the same kind of example for the promised land in the other hemisphere. Israel is this and Egypt is that. The promised land is a choice land of specific measurement -- an area in proportion, a place, a this, and a here. Everywhere else is NOT the promised land regardless of which hemisphere you are talking about.
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Shulem
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Re: This Land of Promise

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The Promised Land on the American continent was likened in the same manner as the Promised Land on the Asian continent. Both were promised lands that were limited in size and scope. BOTH were considered by Joseph Smith to be a “holy land.” But the holy land does not encompass the entire continent or hemisphere. It is a measured parcel or tract of territory that exists within the midst of the whole. The holy land in Palestine which was given to the tribes of Israel is somewhat comparable in size with the promised land given to Lehi in which his seed colonized as explained in the Book of Mormon.

Zech 2:12 wrote:And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.
Enos 1:10 wrote:I have  given unto them this land, and it is a holy land

If a Nephite had travelled thousands of miles and ended up in northern Alaska or the southernmost tip of South America, is he still in the holy land of promise or has he exceeded the bounds of his own country? The point is, everything has boundaries and must be kept within the boundaries the Lord has set.
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Mormon Jr.

Post by Shulem »

Joseph Smith loved to fantasize about himself by playing several of the main characters in the Book of Mormon. He likened himself as a character in the story. It was all part of his personal fantasy! I’ve provided amazing examples here.

I have another example which I would like to express and I sincerely hope interested readers appreciate my desire to share what I know. Let us take into account young Mormon who was none other than Joseph Smith Jr., playing out his own life’s fantasy in the novel he constructed out of the desires of his heart. The introduction of young Mormon:

Mormon 1:6,7 wrote:And I, Mormon, being a descendant of Nephi, (and my father’s name was Mormon) I remembered the things which Ammaron commanded me. And it came to pass that I, being eleven years old, was carried by my father into the land southward, even to the land of Zarahemla.

The key given herein is eleven (11) which pays direct reference to the very age in which young Joseph Smith migrated from Vermont to New York. It compares with Mormon migrating from the land northward down into Zarahemla with Joseph migrating with his family from Vermont to Palmyra. This happened when both characters (Mormon & Joseph) were eleven years old! It is simply uncanny!

The Smith family migrated to Palmyra during the winter of 1816-17, precisely when young Joseph turned eleven in the month of December.

Wikipedia wrote:The extended Smith clan had already moved west to New York, and in 1817, Joseph Smith Sr. traveled alone to Palmyra, New York, followed shortly by the rest of his family—although not before Lucy Smith was forced to settle with some last-minute creditors.

We learn in the autobiography of Lucy Smith how the Smith family had dealt with a great deal of hardship including health problems (“disease & sickness”) and several bad seasons of farming failures in Vermont was the last straw. Father Smith had decided it was time to pack their bags and make a new start -- get out of Dodge! They would look for a better life in New York. And that is exactly what they did as the Smith family packed up and left during the middle of winter. Mother Smith informs us that she “had prepared a great quantity of woolen clothing for my children” preparatory to travelling to New York. Unfortunately, father Smith was not able to make the journey at that time but remained in Vermont to settle business affairs. Mother Smith packed up a wagon and a team of horses and was escorted by a Mr. Howard in whom turned out to be a terrible man and was unkind to young Joseph! Lucy explains how he was an “unprincipled unfeeling wretch” and was quite upset with how Mr. Howard treated their belongings and children, especially Joseph. She related how the “treatment to my children, especially Joseph who was still somewhat lame this child was compelled by M. H to travel for miles to time on foot.” Lucy then described the utter joy of when father Smith made his way to Palmyra and his children hugged and kissed him while Joseph clung to his neck.

A significant difference between the event of Joseph (age 11) moving to Palmyra and Mormon (age 11) moving to Zarahemla is that Mormon was carried by his father into Zarahemla but Joseph’s father remained behind to settle business and so he was carried to Palmyra by extended family and a mean Mr. Howard. It makes me wonder how much young Joseph must have yearned to have had his father travel with him to New York rather than remain in Vermont to take care of business. But in the story of the Book of Mormon, Joseph gets to set things right by having father Mormon carry his son Mormon down into Zarahemla. Thus, Joseph Smith lived out his fantasy and set things how he wanted them to be. The journey from Vermont to Palmyra was certainly one of the most challenging experiences young Joseph ever faced and those memories were forever etched into his hurt soul.

BUT WAIT, THERE IS MORE!

Mormon 1:1-5 wrote:And now I, Mormon, make a record of the things which I have both seen and heard, and call it the Book of Mormon.

And about the time that  Ammaron hid up the records unto the Lord, he came unto me, (I being about ten years of age, and I began to be learned somewhat after the manner of the learning of my people) and Ammaron said unto me: I perceive that thou art a sober child, and art quick to observe;

Therefore, when ye are about twenty and four years old I would that ye should remember the things that ye have observed concerning this people; and when ye are of that age go to the  land Antum, unto a hill which shall be called Shim; and there have I deposited unto the Lord all the sacred engravings concerning this people.

And behold, ye shall take the plates of Nephi unto yourself, and the remainder shall ye leave in the place where they are; and ye shall engrave on the plates of Nephi all the things that ye have observed concerning this people.

And I, Mormon, being a descendant of Nephi, (and my father’s name was Mormon) I remembered the things which Ammaron commanded me.

And so, now we see Mormon at the age of twenty-four (24) goes to the hill Shim and begins to process the plates into the Book of Mormon.

Well, that is exactly what Joseph Smith did at the age of 24! The gold plates that Joseph had uncovered from the hill Cumorah were translated in the summer of 1829 while Joseph was precisely 24 years old. It is simply uncanny and failure to make the connection between Mormon & Joseph is impossible when coming to an understanding of how and why the Book of Mormon was produced.

Thank you (dear readers) for taking the time to read my post. I truly hope you embrace the Delmarva theory because it’s true, I so testify, in the name of Joseph Smith.

Philo, are you there? Behold, you have been called to the work!
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Shulem
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11 & 24

Post by Shulem »

Interested readers who find my 11 & 24 speculation to be insightful should know there is another thread on this subject down in the less friendly Terrestrial forum. Here is a clip:
Shulem wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 1:37 pm
Shulem wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 11:34 am
Well, that is exactly what Joseph Smith did at the age of 24! The gold plates that Joseph had uncovered from the hill Cumorah were translated in the summer of 1829 while Joseph was precisely 24 years old.
An apologetic critic might point out that Joseph was officially only 23 years old during the summer of 1829 -- and so Shulem is wrong. But the point is he was in his 24th year and in a matter of a few months he turned 24 in December at the end of that year. And notice what is said of Mormon who was to go dig up his plates at the hill Shim:
Mormon wrote:when ye are about twenty and four years old
Thus, Mormon was also in his 24th year, about to turn 24!

How uncanny!
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Shulem
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Joseph Smith wrote: Letter to Noah C. Saxton, 4 January 1833

The Book of Mormon is a record of the forefathers of our western tribes of Indians; having been found through the ministration of an holy angel, and translated into our own language by the gift and power of God, after having been hid up in the earth for the last fourteen hundred years, containing the word of God which was delivered unto them. By it we learn that our western tribes of Indians are descendants from that Joseph who was sold into Egypt, and that the land of America is a promised land unto them, and unto it all the tribes of Israel will come, with as many of the Gentiles as shall comply with the requisitions of the new covenant.

Note how the Indians in America proper are in fact inhabiting the promised land. Note how all the tribes of Israel will “come, with as many of the Gentiles” to inhabit America and comply with the requisitions of the new covenant administered under the direction of the prophet Joseph Smith.

Nothing is said about anyone coming to Mexico. Mexico is not the promised land! Nobody is coming to Panama either! It’s all about going to America!

Everything about the promised land has to do with where Joseph Smith lived and the descendants of Joseph in the Book of Mormon -- the American states! Interest in the southern regions of the continent came much later when archeology was introduced as evidence to support the claims of the Book of Mormon.
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by TwoCumorahFraud »

Shulem wrote:
Sat May 06, 2023 1:20 am
Joseph Smith wrote: Letter to Noah C. Saxton, 4 January 1833

Everything about the promised land has to do with where Joseph Smith lived and the descendants of Joseph in the Book of Mormon -- the American states! Interest in the southern regions of the continent came much later when archeology was introduced as evidence to support the claims of the Book of Mormon.
You don’t believe in the RLDS Hemispheric model, which lead to the RLDS Two Cumorah Mesoamerican theory, copyrighted by L.E. Hills?

https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/ ... =en&gbpv=1

https://tinyurl.com/LEHills1924bookM2C

DCP and Jack Welch will call you an Apostate. Along with Heartlanders.
They promoted the latter theory because the copyrights have expired and now in the public domain.
Don’t interrupt their tax-free donations to their 501(c)(3) s.
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