Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Philo Sofee
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Moksha wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:57 pm
In the Honest Hearts expansion for Fallout 3, the setting was Zions Canyon in Utah. The Sacred Datura Root was part of the religious ceremony of these former Mormons. To add to the inexplicableness of former Mormons using the Sacred Datura Root is that it was made into a tea. Everyone knows that Mormons would rather commit adultery than drink tea!
:lol: Yep, the Morms will Morm...
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Brian C. Hales briefly examines the alleged visionary experiences that were reported to have occurred in the Kirtland Temple on mass during dedicatory services in which President Smith presided. He chalks up the supernatural manifestations experienced in the temple as “faith-sustaining” that typified “specific understanding” for what was manifest. Hales concludes that “None were limited to a series of unfocused sensations or hallucinations that failed to convey religious themes.”

I concur with Hales because the whole experience was purely religious in nature and entirely subject to Joseph Smith’s power of suggestion as he led the group into the kind of experience he wanted them to have. And using sacramental wine and bread laced with hallucinogenic ingredients was all the prophet needed to relax his disciples and woo them into a spiritual experience in which they would associate as being from God and heaven.

Milton V. Backman, Jr., The Heavens Resound: A History of the Latter-day Saints in Ohio wrote:During a fifteen-week period, extending from January 21 to May 1, 1836, probably more Latter-day Saints beheld visions and witnessed other unusual spiritual manifestations than during any other era in the history of the Church. There were reports of Saints’ beholding heavenly beings at ten different meetings held during that time. At eight of these meetings, many reported seeing angels, and at five of the services, individuals testified that Jesus, the Savior, appeared. While the Saints were thus communing with heavenly hosts, many prophesied, some spoke in tongues, and others received the gift of interpretation of tongues.

Dedication of Kirtland Temple, by Nancy Harlacher
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There is no doubt that wine flowed freely at the temple ceremonies within the Kirtland Temple and adherents were intoxicated and experiencing a multiplicity of manifestations beyond their ability to fully explain. The temple truly was a House on High!

See also Mormon Think’s article on the Kirtland Temple Dedication in which the evidence proves that those therein were stoned out of their minds.


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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:26 pm
If Hales is trying to show the differences between Joseph Smith's experiences during revelations are not those of consuming entheogens he is being flat out silly if not directly dishonest. MANY of the experiences of mushrooms exactly match Joseph's descriptions of his experiences. He is, once again, trying to make it so Joseph is unique, but he really isn't. He fears this refutes Smith. I don't think it does at all.

That is flat out what Dr. Hales is attempting to do. I remind you that this is all coming from someone (a doctor) who probably has never actually hallucinated on LSD and is therefore not fully qualified to explain the differences between a sober visionary experience and an imaginary one induced by hallucinogenic drugs. He is however free to apply his own conjecture on what it’s like to experience both and make whatever comparisons he thinks best.

Brian C. Hales wrote:When these characteristics and other details reported in the psychedelic “trips” are compared to early Latter-day Saint visionaries’ descriptions, stark contrasts are apparent. Overall, the hallucinations from entheogens seem qualitatively different in significant ways. It appears that more dissimilarities than parallels are identified, which EOMWH fails to address.

I can easily imagine that visionary experiences induced by acid in the Kirtland temple would be very different than those attending a Deep Purple or Pink Floyd concert.

Wow man.
Last edited by Shulem on Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Brian C. Hales wrote:Inaccurate Historical Cause-and-Effect Claims

EOMWH mentions many chronological occurrences in the life of Joseph Smith including his family’s involvement with magic . . . . the lack of correlation between the reported visionary experiences and the identification of historical details showing an association with the ingestion of entheogens.
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:26 pm
If Hales is trying to show the differences between Joseph Smith's experiences during revelations are not those of consuming entheogens he is being flat out silly if not directly dishonest. MANY of the experiences of mushrooms exactly match Joseph's descriptions of his experiences. He is, once again, trying to make it so Joseph is unique, but he really isn't. He fears this refutes Smith. I don't think it does at all.

Philo,

You mentioned something about visions all starting with Joseph’s parents insomuch as Joseph Sr. and mother Lucy had their own special little visions. Do you think they may have been eating mushrooms? Certainly, there were magic mushrooms within the vicinity in which they lived. The Smiths were farmers and knew the land probably as well as anyone. Knowing the land means, one also knows nature and is familiar with the herbs and fungi that spring forth out of the earth. They knew which ones were edible and which ones were poisonous. They also knew which ones produce hallucinogenic effects.

Right?
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Apologetic words

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:58 am
It does appear that Hales, in typical apologetic sleight of hand, attempts to take our eye off the ball, the only thing that matters.

Look how Hales attempts to take our eyes off the ball by introducing words that are not mentioned in the EOMWH. He produces a negative effect to con his readers in poisoning the well by using terms that would not have been used by those who prepare bread and wine that is laced with entheogens.

Brian C. Hales wrote:Spiked Sacrament Wine and Infested Bread?

The most popular connection, mentioned dozens of times in EOMWH, is “sacrament” bread or wine contaminated with a hallucinogenic substance.

How hardly would Smith or any of his four physicians had used the words “infested” and “contaminated” while preparing specially prepared sacred bread and wine for members of the Kirtland Temple congregation.

This little trick up Hale’s apologetic sleeve is not fooling me! Doesn’t this just irk you a little bit, Philo?

:evil:


Please give the links a minute to load:

The entheogenic origins of Mormonism: A working hypothesis - FULL TEXT
The entheogenic origins of Mormonism: A working hypothesis - PDF
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Shulem
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Brian C. Hales wrote:The six volumes of History of the Church covering Joseph Smith’s lifetime refer to the administration of the sacrament thirty-three times. Only three of those include a subsequent reference to spiritual phenomena.

[March 30, 1836, in the Kirtland Temple.] “We partook of the bread and wine. The Holy Spirit rested down upon us, and we continued in the Lord’s House all night, prophesying and giving glory to God.”

Brian, it’s not like Joseph Smith was dropping acid every Sunday and wearing his brain out with drugs! It was for special circumstances and rites in which he would administer the drug to his devoted followers in order to seal them up unto the faith. On those three occasions you mention only the first is of any particular note and that was in the Kirtland temple when they were up “all night” spiritually partying by prophesying and speaking in tongues. The other references elsewhere indicate they were just blessed with the Spirit and felt comforted and reassured of the truth. Brian, you should know that when one is on acid they cannot sleep for quite a while even after the high wears off. You’re pretty much up all night long! Yeah baby! Crank up the Led Zeppelin and Rock and Roll! That is one of the side-effects of dropping acid and coming down off the high can be pretty rough or mellow depending on circumstances. Little wonder they were up “all night” in the Kirtland temple shouting hosannas and doing God only know what!

Joseph Smith Papers wrote:Missouri bishop Edward Partridge recorded that those present “prophesied and spake in tongues & shouted hosannas. the meeting lasted till day light. (Partridge, Journal, 29 Mar. 1836; see also W. Phelps to S. Phelps, Apr. 1836.)

The next day the journal continues saying,

Joseph Smith wrote:. . . . and that it was expedient for me and the presidency to retire, having spent the night previous in waiting upon the Lord in his temple . . . . but that it was expedient for the brethren to tarry all night and worship before the Lord in his house I left the meeting in the charge of the 12 and retired at about 9 o clock in the evening; the brethren continued exhorting, prophesying and speaking in tongues until 5 o clock in the morning— the Saviour made his appearance to some, while angels minestered unto others, and it was a penticost and enduement indeed, long to be remembered . . . .

Yeah man, I see what they did. Joseph left them high as a kite before coming back in the morning to check on his drugged apostles.

Wow. Simply wow.
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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"You over there with some white salamander extract in your Temple wine, come over here and let us play a couple of hands of canasta before we go buzz the Kirkland maidens and propose marriages. What say you?"
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Shulem wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:18 pm
Brian C. Hales wrote:Inaccurate Historical Cause-and-Effect Claims

EOMWH mentions many chronological occurrences in the life of Joseph Smith including his family’s involvement with magic . . . . the lack of correlation between the reported visionary experiences and the identification of historical details showing an association with the ingestion of entheogens.
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:26 pm
If Hales is trying to show the differences between Joseph Smith's experiences during revelations are not those of consuming entheogens he is being flat out silly if not directly dishonest. MANY of the experiences of mushrooms exactly match Joseph's descriptions of his experiences. He is, once again, trying to make it so Joseph is unique, but he really isn't. He fears this refutes Smith. I don't think it does at all.

Philo,

You mentioned something about visions all starting with Joseph’s parents insomuch as Joseph Sr. and mother Lucy had their own special little visions. Do you think they may have been eating mushrooms? Certainly, there were magic mushrooms within the vicinity in which they lived. The Smiths were farmers and knew the land probably as well as anyone. Knowing the land means, one also knows nature and is familiar with the herbs and fungi that spring forth out of the earth. They knew which ones were edible and which ones were poisonous. They also knew which ones produce hallucinogenic effects.

Right?
Fundamentally, yes indeed.
Philo Sofee
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Shulem
is therefore not fully qualified to explain the differences between a sober visionary experience and an imaginary one induced by hallucinogenic drugs.
Uh, no. The hallucinogens experience has nothing to do with imaginary, it is as real as our waking moments, just a different category. But it is not unreal.
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:26 am
Uh, no. The hallucinogens experience has nothing to do with imaginary, it is as real as our waking moments, just a different category. But it is not unreal.

Wouldn’t it prove interesting if Hales wrote about his own visionary experiences while being sober compared to his visionary experiences when dropping acid?

The point is, I doubt he has much to say on either account. ;)

I hope you have found this thread useful in exploring this interesting topic, Philo. Hey, the fact that the apostles (12) were up all night tripping in the Kirtland temple is very telling. I will be exploring that further. It is a red flag! Very, very, red indeed.
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