Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Shulem
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Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

Post by Shulem »

Greetings!

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The Backyard Professor has released a 5-part series podcast on “Joseph Smith & Entheogens” available on YouTube. If you have not seen these podcasts then I highly recommend starting with Part 4 and then proceed to Part 5 and finish by viewing the rest in order. Or if you like, start with Part I. Your choice!

1. Backyard Professor: 085: My Apology to BYU & Mormonism & New Light on Joseph Smith's Visions
2. Backyard Professor: 086: New Light on Entheogens & Joseph Smith, Part 2
3. Backyard Professor: 087: Joseph Smith & Entheogens: New Light on Mormon History, Part 3
4. Backyard Professor: 088: Joseph Smith & Entheogens, Part 4
5. Backyard Professor: 089: Joseph Smith & Entheogens Final Part


Also, for a balanced look on the apologetic side there is this article in the INTERPRETER (A JOURNAL OF LATTER-DAY SAINT FAITH AND SCHOLARSHIP).
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

Post by Moksha »

Brian Hales mentions the secretions from the parotid glands of the Sonoran Desert toad, but is anything known about the psychedelic properties of white salamanders?
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Very interesting stuff indeed
The views and opinions expressed by Bill4Long could be wrong and are subject to change at any time. Viewer discretion is advised.
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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Moksha wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:11 am
white salamanders?

I’m afraid that prophets of the Mormon Church don’t know one way or another about things that remain unproven. They refuse to get down on their knees and ask God. They fail to ask Heavenly Father if something is true or not. Not even President Hinkley knew how to offer a proper prayer in that respect. It must be because he lacked faith. Or perhaps he felt unworthy?

Church News on April 28, 1985, President Gordon B. Hinckley wrote:No one, of course, can be certain that Martin Harris wrote the document. However, at this point we accept the judgment of the examiner that there is no indication that it is a forgery. This does not preclude the possibility that it may have been forged at a time when the Church had many enemies.

But God knows! Ask him, Gordon.
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Re: Tripping on acid

Post by Shulem »

The narrative and descriptions of visions had by Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, and others leads me to believe these guys were tripping on acid as they induced their heavenly visionary experiences. It seems like an acid trip and Joseph Smith was the pusher and instigator of the whole thing. Here are some quotes from Church produced materials that describe the circumstances that took place during the visionary experiences of Section 76.

Lesson 79: Doctrine and Covenants 76:20–49

Philo Dibble was present when Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon received their vision. He described Joseph and Sidney’s experience:

Philo Dibble wrote:The vision which is recorded in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants was given at the house of ‘Father Johnson,’ in [Hiram], Ohio, and during the time that Joseph and Sidney were in the spirit and saw the heavens open, there were other men in the room, perhaps twelve, among whom I was one during a part of the time … I saw the glory and felt the power, but did not see the vision.

Note how Philo says he saw the glory and felt the power but did not see the vision. He too would have been under the influence of acid but experienced his own kind of religious experience that didn’t exactly coincide with the others. Everyone’s own acid trip is a personal experience and will take on characteristics that are unique to that person.
  • saw = Wow man, I see brightness and shapes and things moving and opening
  • felt = Wow man I can feel it -- what an amazing sensation
  • see = Wow man, I see things but not the angels

Philo Dibble wrote:Joseph would, at intervals, say: ‘What do I see?’ as one might say while looking out the window and beholding what all in the room could not see. Then he would relate what he had seen or what he was looking at. Then Sidney replied, ‘I see the same.’ Presently Sidney would say ‘what do I see?’ and would repeat what he had seen or was seeing, and Joseph would reply, ‘I see the same.’

This is very descriptive of dudes dropping acid and sharing their experiences together:

Wow man, look what I see! Yeah man, I see it too. Wow man.

The power of suggestion by the ringleader and doper (Joseph Smith) induced visions on his friends by having them drop acid and hallucinate a religious experience according to his persuasion. This was an incredible group high designed to fully initiate others into Joseph Smith’s realm of deep religious thought. It was the ultimate form of brainwashing using the most powerful means to perform it.

Philo Dibble wrote:Joseph sat firmly and calmly all the time in the midst of a magnificent glory, but Sidney sat limp and pale, apparently as limber as a rag, observing which, Joseph remarked, smilingly, ‘Sidney is not used to it as I am’.

Or in other words, Sidney hasn’t been dropping acid as long as I have. Sidney was stoned out of his mind and sat limp and pale in the chair while tripping on acid. Joseph Smith was very used to getting high. He’d been doing it for years!

Folks, this was a group acid experience and Joseph Smith was a druggie. It’s so plainly obvious that a druggie today could easily pick up on the cues that expose this charade. Mormonism was born out of an acid trip. And it all started with the First Vision.

Far out, man. Peace.

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Just one is all that is needed

Post by Shulem »

Brian C. Hales examines the seven entheogens in question and provides interesting descriptions of their origin, preparation, and usage. Then he expresses how there are weaknesses in showing how this would have been actually accomplished.

Brian C. Hales wrote: 1. Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata...
2. Amanita Muscaria...
3. Claviceps Purpurea...
4. Datura Stramonium...
5. Hyoscyamus Niger...
6. Lophophora Williamsii...
7. Incilius Alvarius (Bufo Alvarius)...

<snip>

Weaknesses of the Entheogen Hypothesis

This brief review of the seven entheogens discussed in EOMWH demonstrates some of the challenges Joseph Smith would have faced using them to generate psychedelic experiences among his followers.

Brian,

Indeed, that’s a lot of natural drugs of different variety, some of which were not readily available to New Yorkers or those living in the Midwest. So, let’s forget about the hard-to-get Arizona toads, Mexican cacti, and other substances that are less accessible. Smith only needed one thing: Acid, baby. That which was readily available in his neck of the woods. Magic mushrooms grew naturally in pastures and woodlands. All that was needed was one of the seven in the list above and a steady supply and a steady hand in administering it.

Imagine if you will, eating magic mushrooms and spending an afternoon in the Kirtland Temple with Joseph Smith. What might you see? What might you feel?

Wow man. Wow.
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Re: Just one is all that is needed

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:38 am
Brian C. Hales examines the seven entheogens in question and provides interesting descriptions of their origin, preparation, and usage. Then he expresses how there are weaknesses in showing how this would have been actually accomplished.

Brian C. Hales wrote: 1. Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata...
2. Amanita Muscaria...
3. Claviceps Purpurea...
4. Datura Stramonium...
5. Hyoscyamus Niger...
6. Lophophora Williamsii...
7. Incilius Alvarius (Bufo Alvarius)...

<snip>

Weaknesses of the Entheogen Hypothesis

This brief review of the seven entheogens discussed in EOMWH demonstrates some of the challenges Joseph Smith would have faced using them to generate psychedelic experiences among his followers.

Brian,

Indeed, that’s a lot of natural drugs of different variety, some of which were not readily available to New Yorkers or those living in the Midwest. So, let’s forget about the hard-to-get Arizona toads, Mexican cacti, and other substances that are less accessible. Smith only needed one thing: Acid, baby. That which was readily available in his neck of the woods. Magic mushrooms grew naturally in pastures and woodlands. All that was needed was one of the seven in the list above and a steady supply and a steady hand in administering it.

Imagine if you will, eating magic mushrooms and spending an afternoon in the Kirtland Temple with Joseph Smith. What might you see? What might you feel?

Wow man. Wow.
It does appear that Hales, in typical apologetic sleight of hand, attempts to take our eye off the ball, the only thing that matters. He had access to it physically in the landscape, and with the 4 physicians he surrounded himself with as I noted in my videos, as well as from the indians constantly visiting him.
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Re: Just one is all that is needed

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:58 am
It does appear that Hales, in typical apologetic sleight of hand, attempts to take our eye off the ball, the only thing that matters. He had access to it physically in the landscape, and with the 4 physicians he surrounded himself with as I noted in my videos, as well as from the indians constantly visiting him.

Hales makes a general comparison between what the alleged early Mormon acid-droppers may have experienced during their trips compared to those of a modern culture who are dropping acid under a complete set of different circumstances. We are given this ambiguous conclusion to show that differences between two control groups demonstrates a weakness in showing they have been affected by the same mind altering substance:

Brian C. Hales wrote:
  • Inaccurate chemical cause-and-effect claims.

Hales seems to suggest that both settings are like control groups in a laboratory and therefore the users should experience similar things. But how could they when they are so far removed in culture and beliefs? It’s not reasonable to think that tripping while experiencing a religious sacrament under Joseph Smith’s direction and persuasion is going to be anything like the circumstances of modern hippies dropping acid for completely different reasons. There simply is no comparison and yet it seems Hales uses this as an example to weaken the claims of EOMWH.

Really, what does Hales know about dropping acid other than what he may have read about? I’m under the impression he has little experience in these matters and therefore is less qualified to make sound judgments in comparing the differences between Smith’s temple going acid droppers and modern acid droppers listening to the Grateful Dead in some attic in San Francisco.

If Hales were to drop a hit of LSD and then attend the temple with a few of the brethren then he would come to a better understanding of what Smith was pushing! Does Hales really think he knows what he’s talking about? He would be the first to say that you have to experience the Holy Ghost to understand the influence of the Holy Ghost. And I say you have to experience acid firsthand in order to understand the influence of that particular drug. And yeah, baby, I've dropped acid several times in my lifetime so I can honestly say I know a little how it works and can imagine Joseph Smith having quite the time tripping out his followers. Yeah baby!

But Hales? What does he really know?
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

Post by Philo Sofee »

If Hales is trying to show the differences between Joseph Smith's experiences during revelations are not those of consuming entheogens he is being flat out silly if not directly dishonest. MANY of the experiences of mushrooms exactly match Joseph's descriptions of his experiences. He is, once again, trying to make it so Joseph is unique, but he really isn't. He fears this refutes Smith. I don't think it does at all.
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Re: Joseph Smith & Entheogens by The Backyard Professor

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In the Honest Hearts expansion for Fallout 3, the setting was Zions Canyon in Utah. The Sacred Datura Root was part of the religious ceremony of these former Mormons. To add to the inexplicableness of former Mormons using the Sacred Datura Root is that it was made into a tea. Everyone knows that Mormons would rather commit adultery than drink tea!
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