Historical Predynastic Egypt vs. Book of Abraham False Narrative

[Moksha]

Shulem, was there any way for Joseph to have understood the antiquity of Egypt by knowing its timeline? I would like to imagine these gaffes were from a lack of knowledge rather than simply lazy storytelling.

I believe Professor Skousen postulated about a ghost committee of medieval bards that helped advise on the translation or channeling of the Book of Mormon. I wish that Jules Verne had been able to advise on the creation of the Book of Abraham, but he was only a schoolboy in France at that time.

[Shulem]

Shulem, was there any way for Joseph to have understood the antiquity of Egypt by knowing its timeline? I would like to imagine these gaffes were from a lack of knowledge rather than simply lazy storytelling.

Moksha,

You are more than welcome to peruse the Encyclopedia that was available in Joseph Smith’s time and see if anything catches your eye. Here is the link (PDF) to that work which contains over 40 pages of information in a separate article about Egypt, see digital pages 638 – 683:

Encyclopedia Britannica, 1823

(Dr. Shades, please allow me to use a little red ink in this very important textual example because it makes the point that needs to be made. Thank you!)

As a nation, the Egyptians may with justice lay claim to as high antiquity as any in the world. The country was most probably peopled by Mizraim the son of Ham and grandson of Noah. By its ancient inhabitants it was called Chemia, and is still called Chemi in the language of the Copts or native Egyptians; and this name it is supposed to have received from Ham the son of Noah. In scripture, we find it most generally named Misraim ; though in the Psalms it is styled the land of Ham.—To us it is best known by the name Egypt, the etymology of which is more uncertain.—Some derive it from AEgyptus, a supposed king of the country ; others say it signifies no more than “the land of the Copts,” Aia in Greek signifying a country, and AEcoptos being easily softened into AEgyptus.

Do you see familiar connections with this and the Book of Abraham? Surely the Backyard Professor will notice it right off the bat. Where is he? You can bet that Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, and others were resourceful and had an understanding of ancient Egypt as understood by scholars of their time.

Philo?

[Moksha]

So Joseph can be excused due to having bad historical information on Egypt and not for failing to garner enough information to properly weave his story. I was wondering if this was similar to having Jesus being born in Jerusalem.

[Shulem]

Encyclopedia Britannica, 1823

Chronology that Smith and Cowdery wholly embraced:

DELUGE
Universal Deluge, or Noah’s Flood, which overflowed and destroyed the whole earth ; and from which only Noah, and those with him in the ark, escaped.

This flood makes one of the most considerable epochas in chronology. Its history is given by Moses, Gen. ch. vi. and vii. Its time is fixed, by the best chronologers, to the year from the creation 1656, answering to the year before Christ 2293. From this flood, the state of the world is divided into diluvian and antediluvian.

Please note how scholarship in Smith’s day was married to the chronology of the Bible. That is exactly how Joseph Smith developed his own chronology as it relates to the rise of Egypt that is explained in chapter one of the Book of Abraham.

• THE PATRIARCHAL REIGN FROM ADAM TO THE FLOOD 1,656 YEARS

• PERIOD BETWEEN THE FLOOD AND CHRIST 2293 YEARS

[Shulem]

Encyclopedia Britannica, 1823

Biblical history is what Smith and Cowdery wholly embraced and assigned ancient Egyptian religion as having sprung from Noah’s progeny:

DELUGE
Mr Bryant, in his system of Mythology, has with great learning and considerable success endeavoured to show, that the deluge was one of the principal, if not the only foundation of the Gentile worship ; that the first of their deities was Noah ; that all nations of the world look up to him as their founder; and that he, his sons, and the first patriarchs, are alluded to in most if not all of the religious ceremonies, not only of the ancient but of the modern heathens. In short, according to this author, the deluge, so far from being forgot, or obscurely mentioned by the heathen world, is in reality conspicuous throughout every one of their acts of religious worship.

The Egyptian Osiris, according to him, was the same with Ham the son of Noah, though the name was sometimes bestowed on Noah himself. That this is the case, is evident, he thinks, from its being said that he was exposed in the ark, and afterwards restored to day : that he planted the vine, taught mankind agriculture, and inculcated upon them the maxims of religion and heroes, justice.

Book of Abraham Chapter One:

• Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.

• Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

• Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;

[Moksha]

Encyclopedia Britannica, 1823

The article on Egypt starts on page 590.

[Shulem]

Encyclopedia Britannica, 1823

The article on Egypt starts on page 590.

Right.

But there are two numbers for page designation:

Page 590 is the number printed on top of the actual page in the book
Page 638 is the digital number in browser control

[Shulem]

Doctor Scratch
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic
Studies

I respect Shulem enormously and think he is the greatest critic of the Book of Abraham who has ever lived. But just because I think that doesn’t mean that it has registered with the Mopologists, for what it’s worth. One day, someone should compile a “Greatest Hits” of Shulem’s Book of Abraham commentary. I’d volunteer for the task myself, but I confess that Shulem’s erudition on the subject far exceeds my own, and I worry that I’d overlook something vital.

You are absolutely correct, Doctor Scratch -- now, more so than ever! The apologists have no choice but to walk away from the Book of Abraham. It’s no longer on life support. It’s dead! This thread is the final nail in the coffin.

Doctor Scratch
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic
Studies

You are a true legend, Shulem. If the stars were somehow to align so that you could debate Gee head-to-head, it would be epic. It will never happen, but in a just world, someone would find a way to get it done.

Indeed!

[Shulem]

So Joseph can be excused due to having bad historical information on Egypt and not for failing to garner enough information to properly weave his story. I was wondering if this was similar to having Jesus being born in Jerusalem.

There is no excusing Joseph Smith for “bad historical information” he derived from common knowledge of his day regarding the origin and rise of ancient Egypt having sprung from Ham *after* the Deluge of 2300 BC. The entire premise for Smith’s work was built upon the claim that he divinely translated Egyptian papyrus written by the hand of Abraham and that this record confirmed how Egypt came into existence AFTER the flood. This was supposed to be a revelation from God about how Egypt came to be!

Joseph Smith simply used what he and his companions knew about Egypt and the Bible and plugged it in to meld what might be accepted as a reasonable treatise based on a common understanding of the Bible believing world.

[Shulem]

I wish that Jules Verne had been able to advise on the creation of the Book of Abraham, but he was only a schoolboy in France at that time.

Young Jules Verne sitting at the feet of Joseph Smith would have learned how Egypt gained an understanding of mathematics and astronomy on the account of Abraham teaching the king’s court while sitting on Pharaoh’s throne. He would have learned how everything about ancient Egypt came after Noah’s flood and how the Egyptians were a race of people through Ham. It would have been firmly stated that everything that occurred in the land of Egypt happened after 2300 BC to include all the Egyptian dynasties and the building of the pyramids.

THAT is exactly what we get from Joseph Smith and his revelations about ancient Egypt! The Book of Abraham is a slam against everything we know about ancient Egypt through the science of modern Egyptology. The Book of Abraham is an enemy to Egyptology and LDS Egyptologists based at BYU are absolutely corrupt in their efforts to defend a false historical narrative given by Joseph Smith.

The alarm must be sounded and the world needs to be told how the Mormons are lying and supporting a coverup of biblical proportion. This may be a job for the Backyard Professor!

Philo, where are you?