Question for my Mormon Friends

[mocnarf]

A question for my Mormon friends. I am working on a story about a man on a search for answers to the perenial questions of life. On this quest for knowledge, he speaks with many religious leaders. Among them is a Mormon Bishop. My question is, does this dialog seem authentic and are the bishop's answers reasonable and likely?

Here's the dialog:

In his quest for answers, Marty found himself in conversation with a Mormon bishop, a man of steadfast faith and unwavering conviction. As they sat together in the quiet of the church, Marty voiced his doubts and concerns, seeking clarity amidst the theological complexities.

Marty: "Bishop, I've been pondering some aspects of the Christian faith, and I have some questions that I hope you can help me with."

Bishop: "Of course, Marty. I'm here to help. What's on your mind?"

Marty: "Well, I understand the teachings of charity, unconditional love, and treating others as you would want to be treated. Those are noble and lofty ideals. But I struggle to understand the need for a savior. It seems to me like a mechanism in Christian faiths to play a guilt trip on their believers to keep them in the fold and, more importantly, donating money to promote the faith."

Bishop: "I understand your concerns, Marty. The concept of a savior is central to Christian beliefs, but it's important to remember that it's not just about guilt or donations. The idea is that Jesus Christ sacrificed himself to atone for the sins of humanity, offering a path to salvation and eternal life."

Marty: "But why do Christian faiths teach that man lives but one mortal life and thus requires a Savior? What if man lives multiple mortal lives and can gain knowledge and wisdom in each life, as some Eastern religions suggest?"

Bishop Frazer listened patiently, his expression thoughtful as he considered Marty's questions. "I understand your concerns, my friend," he said kindly. "In our faith, we believe in the concept of agency—the ability to choose between right and wrong. While we acknowledge the reality of sin and its consequences, we also believe in the power of redemption and the opportunity for growth and change."

Marty: Yes, exactly. It seems to me that if man lived multiple lives gaining knowledge and wisdom with each life on a journey to exaltation then there would be no need for redemption, no need for a savior. Over the course of countless lifetimes the soul can progress to exaltation.

Bishop: "That's an interesting perspective, Marty. The belief in multiple mortal lives, or reincarnation, is not a part of traditional Christian doctrine. However, I can see how it might offer a different understanding of the human experience and the need for a savior."

Marty: "One other question, for you, Bishop. Tell me about your faith's teachings about "intelligences" in the spirit world."

Bishop: "Ah, the concept of intelligences is a fundamental part of our beliefs. We believe that before we were born, we existed as intelligences in the spirit world. These intelligences were organized and given the opportunity to progress and become like our Heavenly Father. This progression involves learning, growing, and developing our divine potential."

Marty: "So, you believe in a form of pre-existence, where our spirits existed before we were born?"

Bishop: "Yes, exactly. We believe that our spirits are eternal and that our mortal lives are just one part of our eternal journey. Our time on Earth is a crucial opportunity for growth and learning, but it's not the beginning or the end of our existence."

Marty: "That's fascinating. It's a different perspective from what I've heard in other Christian faiths."

Bishop: "Yes, our beliefs about the pre-existence and the eternal nature of our spirits set us apart from some other Christian denominations. But it's a core part of our faith and helps us understand the purpose and meaning of our mortal lives."

Marty: “Bishop, forgive my thousand questions, but I am on a quest for understanding. What is the difference between intelligences and souls, spirits and angels?

Bishop: "In our faith, we believe that intelligences are the basic building blocks of creation. They are eternal and un-created, and they have the potential to become spirits, souls, or angels. Spirits are the essence of who we are, and they are housed within physical bodies during our mortal lives. Souls are the combination of our spirits and our physical bodies, and they are the entities that progress and grow throughout eternity. Angels are beings who have progressed beyond the mortal realm and have been given specific assignments to help guide and protect God's children. So, while intelligences are the basic building blocks, spirits, souls, and angels are the more advanced forms that intelligences can take on as they progress and grow."

Marty: "So angels are souls that have been given a special mission, they are not part of the mortal realm but at times can visit the mortal realm. Do I understand your belief correctly?"

Bishop: "Yes, that's correct. Angels are souls who have progressed beyond the mortal realm and have been given specific assignments by God to help guide and protect His children. They are not part of the mortal realm, but they can visit the mortal realm to fulfill their assignments. They are beings of light and love, and they are always ready to assist those who call upon them for help."

Marty: "Thank you, Bishop. I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me."

Bishop: "You're welcome, Marty. It's always a pleasure to discuss our beliefs and answer questions. If you have any more, don't hesitate to ask."

Marty: "So, intelligences existed before the creation of the universe. What if there was no singular god, but instead the intelligences organized and worked together to create the universe and setup a plan to gain in knowledge and wisdom?"

Bishop: "That's an interesting perspective, Marty. In our faith, we believe in a singular god who created the universe and has a plan for our eternal progression. However, the idea of intelligences working together to create the universe is not entirely incompatible with our beliefs. We believe that God works through His children, and that we are co-creators with Him in a sense. So, while we believe in a singular god, we also believe in the power of collaboration and cooperation among His children."

Marty: "That's an intriguing way to look at it. I am intrigued with the way souls might work together to create and progress."

Bishop: "Yes, there are certainly similarities between our beliefs and the faith that your question suggests. It's always interesting to explore different perspectives and see where they intersect."

Marty: "Thank you, Bishop. I appreciate your openness to discussing these ideas with me."

Bishop: "You're welcome, Marty. It's important to have these conversations and explore different perspectives. If you have any more questions or want to continue the discussion, feel free to reach out."

[Imwashingmypirate]

Is this a play script? I couldn't read this. Marty and Bishop both have the same voice. It's like Marty is imagining the conversation in his head. There's no personality difference between the two characters making it hard for me (personally) to read. Mormon bishops are every day people with (usually) little to no theological learning beyond what they learn in church if they grew up in the church. They don't tend to be the discussion/open minded type of people to have a conversation with this much depth. They also probably don't have much time so are more likely to put you in touch with a missionary who is likely to be still mentally a kid or with whoever is called in a teaching position, maybe the librarian.

I will try to read this properly and might edit with comments.

The unwavering bit... Steadfast conviction and unwavering faith would make more sense than steadfast faith and unwavering conviction. But that's just my perspective.

Edit: choice and accountability, power of repentance

The Mormon church is a bit different to mainstream Christianity in that they don't teach that Christ has already saved us and that to get to heaven we just have to believe in him. So I don't really recall lessons or discussions on redemption. The Mormon church teaches that Christ died because Adam fell and he suffered the pain, suffering and sins of all people in the garden of Gethsemane. That that is the atonement, the bleeding. But we are responsible for our salvation. Christianity teaches that the salvation has basically already happened.

They draw a stupid diagram. There's a path. It's like faith, baptism, repentance, and enduring to the end. Can't remember.

Marty kind of jumped from one question to the next without receiving an answer. Or at least I can't see that the question was answered fully.
The answer from a Mormon perspective would be that we need a saviour because of the fall of Adam. I'm sure someone here can explain it further.

I don't see the connection between needing a saviour and using a saviour to make people pay tithes or feel trapped. But I'm not very bright so maybe if this story is for someone like me, then I'm not following the thought process there. It kind of sounds like Marty has already formed his opinion and already knows the conversation before the conversation happened. So when the jump to the next topic happens, it's like he must be satisfied with that answer but I wouldn't be satisfied that that answer answered what the question appears to be.

Edit further...

I have no idea what this intelligences thing is. I've certainly never been taught that. We were taught that we were beings with gender and with choice in the pre existence. That there was a war in heaven and we are part of the group of people that followed Christ's plan. That we knew who our families were going to be and what our life was going to be like and agreed to our individual plans. Those that followed Satan's plan were cast out. We needed a physical body to experience something in order to continue in our growth and perhaps this might answer the lack of a need to come to earth multiple times. Satan wanted us to be given a body but without choice and agency and for everyone to return to heaven. Jesus wanted us to have choice. We had choice in the pre existence according to Mormon teachings.

Edit further...

What?

Nahhh... A bishop wouldn't say all that at the bottom. I don't even know what that's talking about. It's just strange. From the intelligences onwards just seems not right at all. We didn't co-create the universe according to Mormonism and Marty is questioning to hear what he wants to hear. No bishop is going to agree with that stuff. God created the universe through the word and the word is Christ. So if anyone helped God in the Mormon scenarios that I am aware of, it would be Christ. I am sure I was taught God has a wife and God became God through having a body and through the same process that we could go through to achieve exaltation according to Mormonism. But don't quote me on that, that might just have been member speculation and discussion. I personally don't believe this.

I don't really get the point. Every other member of this board will have a better idea of this than me. I just don't get it and I'm sorry I'm being so critical. I wasn't intending to. I can't see that conversation happening. I would be interested to see the other discussions Marty has had in your story.

[msnobody]

I don’t see a bishop going into that much detail either, but I’m a never mo, so you really weren’t asking me. I only know one bishop who might go into that much detail with me, but I think that would be because we are friends.

[High Spy]

I don’t see a bishop going into that much detail either, but I’m a never mo, so you really weren’t asking me. I only know one bishop who might go into that much detail with me, but I think that would be because we are friends.

My being called a bishop isn't because of my advanced understanding of scripture, but rather seer type skills likely played a role. Also being the husband of a first wife is a qualification specified in the Bible. Nevertheless, the opening of the seventh seal stands revealed.

[msnobody]

I don’t see a bishop going into that much detail either, but I’m a never mo, so you really weren’t asking me. I only know one bishop who might go into that much detail with me, but I think that would be because we are friends.

My being called a bishop isn't because of my advanced understanding of scripture, but rather seer type skills likely played a role. Also being the husband of a first wife is a qualification specified in the Bible. Nevertheless, the opening of the seventh seal stands revealed.

To where should I mail my check?

[Imwashingmypirate]

I don’t see a bishop going into that much detail either, but I’m a never mo, so you really weren’t asking me. I only know one bishop who might go into that much detail with me, but I think that would be because we are friends.

My being called a bishop isn't because of my advanced understanding of scripture, but rather seer type skills likely played a role. Also being the husband of a first wife is a qualification specified in the Bible. Nevertheless, the opening of the seventh seal stands revealed.

Are you a bishop? I don't know who goes to church and who doesn't here.

Also, what is a first wife?

[Imwashingmypirate]

I don’t see a bishop going into that much detail either, but I’m a never mo, so you really weren’t asking me. I only know one bishop who might go into that much detail with me, but I think that would be because we are friends.

They don't know enough lol. And from my experience most bishops don't have time. They've got lives and jobs and lots of church members to listen to and help.

[huckelberry]

My being called a bishop isn't because of my advanced understanding of scripture, but rather seer type skills likely played a role. Also being the husband of a first wife is a qualification specified in the Bible. Nevertheless, the opening of the seventh seal stands revealed.

If the seventh seal stands revealed then you can explain how and what it is and just what has been revealed. You are invited to proceed beyond mysterious hand waving and eye winks.

[Moksha]

My being called a bishop isn't because of my advanced understanding of scripture, but rather seer type skills likely played a role. Also being the husband of a first wife is a qualification specified in the Bible. Nevertheless, the opening of the seventh seal stands revealed.

If the seventh seal stands revealed then you can explain how and what it is and just what has been revealed. You are invited to proceed beyond mysterious hand waving and eye winks.

High Spy, could you answer Shulem's King's name question with that seer-type skill?

[Shulem]

High Spy, could you answer Shulem's King's name question with that seer-type skill?

Well, I have High Spy on ignore. Not to derail the thread, but if an answer is provided concerning the King's name in Facsimile No. 3, do let me know. That could make for some really painful arm twisting. No power on earth or in heaven is gonna be able to come up with the name. Not even God can do that.