The Grace in My Mother's Love

[Marcus]

You are making statements about a religion based on your limited experience as a teenager in a difficult situation.

This is your perspective:

I'm glad you can see that your opinion on women's value in the LDS church is based on the fact that all you know is what your personal experience as a teen showed you. My guess, based on a larger knowledge of the LDS church processes, is that the women you looked up to weren't running anything, but were doing what the men in leadership roles told them they could. Please, educate yourself about women's roles in the LDS church if you're going to continue to argue that it's only that when you "analyse every detail then yeah you could come to that conclusion."

Please.

I'm glad it helped you in your teen years, but it doesn't change the fact that women are not respected as equals to men in the LDS church.

Yes! I get what you are saying. And I'm not arguing that women aren't equal to men in the church... What I am saying is that the OP was sharing about her relationship with her mum and discussing from her own private life perspective and how she feels. And you've come steam rolling telling her she is wrong. When she isn't wrong. She isn't talking about the female injustice of the church leadership she's talking about her mum and what her mum taught her. We all know the church is patriarchal and racist. There is no denying that. But this thread isn't intended to debate and jump into that. It is just one person sharing her experience, her relationship and her love for her mum. Yes she touches on her mum being limited and men being above her but that isn't her message.

So it was harsh that you took one part and jumped on it without respecting the full essence of the blog.

So, a whole different topic. Yes, I already discussed that with the op before you stepped in. Next time, just state your point without all the in between obfuscation.

...And you've come steam rolling telling her she is wrong.

No, I didn't. Maybe you missed the exchange we had.

You've gone back in time now, multiple times on multiple threads, to pick up on posts of mine where you seem to just want to pick a fight. If you don't like how I post, may I suggest using the "add foe" feature so that my posts are not visible to you.

[IWMP]

Yes! I get what you are saying. And I'm not arguing that women aren't equal to men in the church... What I am saying is that the OP was sharing about her relationship with her mum and discussing from her own private life perspective and how she feels. And you've come steam rolling telling her she is wrong. When she isn't wrong. She isn't talking about the female injustice of the church leadership she's talking about her mum and what her mum taught her. We all know the church is patriarchal and racist. There is no denying that. But this thread isn't intended to debate and jump into that. It is just one person sharing her experience, her relationship and her love for her mum. Yes she touches on her mum being limited and men being above her but that isn't her message.

So it was harsh that you took one part and jumped on it without respecting the full essence of the blog.

So, a whole different topic. Yes, I already discussed that with the op before you stepped in. Next time, just state your point without all the in between obfuscation.

...And you've come steam rolling telling her she is wrong.

No, I didn't. Maybe you missed the exchange we had.

You've gone back in time now, multiple times on multiple threads, to pick up on posts of mine where you seem to just want to pick a fight. If you don't like how I post, may I suggest using the "add foe" feature so that my posts are not visible to you.

Maybe I did miss the exchange. I'll look back.

I have nothing against you. I don't intentionally pick fights and I certainly haven't noticed anything about you that stands out as being something that bothers me. I read threads from the beginning. So perhaps if it feels like I've gone back in time, it might be that I am responding to early posts within the thread. I will make a conscious effort to read full threads before replying to avoid seeming like I am doing that if that is what is happening.

Apologies. I wasn't aware that that is how you were seeing me. I assumed that because this is a discussion board people can discuss and debate and disagree and it be fine.

[Marcus]

So, a whole different topic. Yes, I already discussed that with the op before you stepped in. Next time, just state your point without all the in between obfuscation.

Maybe I did miss the exchange. I'll look back.

I have nothing against you. I don't intentionally pick fights and I certainly haven't noticed anything about you that stands out as being something that bothers me. I read threads from the beginning. So perhaps if it feels like I've gone back in time, it might be that I am responding to early posts within the thread. I will make a conscious effort to read full threads before replying to avoid seeming like I am doing that if that is what is happening.

Apologies. I wasn't aware that that is how you were seeing me. I assumed that because this is a discussion board people can discuss and debate and disagree and it be fine.

No apology necessary, and yes, this is a great board for discussing, debating, and disagreeing. It is definitely fine.

[IWMP]

Maybe I did miss the exchange. I'll look back.

I have nothing against you. I don't intentionally pick fights and I certainly haven't noticed anything about you that stands out as being something that bothers me. I read threads from the beginning. So perhaps if it feels like I've gone back in time, it might be that I am responding to early posts within the thread. I will make a conscious effort to read full threads before replying to avoid seeming like I am doing that if that is what is happening.

Apologies. I wasn't aware that that is how you were seeing me. I assumed that because this is a discussion board people can discuss and debate and disagree and it be fine.

No apology necessary, and yes, this is a great board for discussing, debating, and disagreeing. It is definitely fine.

[Meadowchik]

One thing about losing my mom is that she was like air and water to me. She had always been there in my life and, despite being a mother of many children, she never let me down when I needed her.

There’s another layer to it, though. She did so much invisibly that her absence now has been that much more of a shock.

Mom had the obvious responsibilities, like the shopping, meals, and housework. But what she also gave us was curiousity about the world, empathy for others and ourselves, and a voice always ready to sing. At church, she was a teacher and hymn conductor, but also she could really see people with an uncanny ability to understand and love them.

I grew up with an LDS mother who was always the helper but never the owner of the work. She kept the house together but Dad had the final word. She made beautiful programs and lessons happen at church, but priesthood leaders had to approve it all, in one way or another.

I wish I could have seen my mom come into her own more, be herself more without a thought to others, speak her opinions more, seek her own happiness more.

She did each of those things to varying degrees, I think, but, if I outlined each with borders, then I’d see they are borders I am now crossing in my own life. And therefore, where I am is the frontier to me. I suppose it’s a universal truth that all children get to these frontiers where there is no path worn by their parents.

But the church never taught me how to be part of a complete family without a father at its head. Yet, here I am. It never taught me how to be the full-time caregiver who also worked. Instead, I grew up an expert at compromise, submission, and obedience. Mom was my model. But now I have to figure out how to make unilateral decisions, know my priorities, and make the rules myself.

I would very much have liked to tell her all about this frontier and have her hold my hand as we walked it together. I would have liked to see her laugh at it, get angry about it, maybe even lecture about it.

I say I would like it, but that’s the worst part. I don’t know if I ever would have grown enough to appreciate all that before she died. As she was, she was my air and water, remember?

However, I try to imagine my children in my shoes after I’m gone, wishing I had been fully me, and then I can be brave now.

And that’s when I realize that, actually, that invisibility is two-directional. Just like a small child not understanding, I didn’t see, and sometimes she knew I didn’t see when I needed to see. And just like all of us, sometimes she didn’t see either, and sometimes she didn’t know.

But that didn’t stop her love.

I had to leave an abusive marriage that tore my world apart. The courage to leave came from one foundational principle: I am of worth.

The Young Women’s motto I repeated every Sunday offered this to me in theory, but my mother’s consistent care made it real. She was my sounding-board and comfort.

Our last phone conversation was a video call. I could see the tubes helping her breathe. Her words were careful, given with effort. I could sense her pain and exhaustion. But she was happy to speak to me, and she reiterated one final time in support: you deserve better. You. Are. A. Person.

It has been difficult since her passing. Beyond her absence, there has been one crisis after another in my life. And yet we had so many conversations that I can still almost converse with her now. I can anticipate what she would say, and I know how she would make me feel.

How can a mother say things when her children are not ready to hear? She says them over and over but in a million ways, so that, when she’s gone and they’re ready, their memories of her carry them forward in time, beyond who she was, until they finally hear her and can be brave.

This my mother did.

https://sistersquorum.com/2024/03/04/th ... #more-1747

This is a beautiful post. Thank you for sharing. Don't beat yourself up. It sounds like you have a beautiful relationship with your mum even if you are walking down a different path. And regardless of your belief differences, she's still your mum and it's clear she still taught you with love and respect and all of those things are transferable into your life outside of the church.

And maybe she was happy even though men created boundaries for her. Some people like having boundaries.

She was capable of extending that love and those lessons even within that dynamic. (And that sense of her being bound by men and having to have things checked over probably looks worse from your perspective that from hers.)

Well done for getting out of the abuse and you aren't alone. Her lessons are with you. You've got this.

Thank you.

Yes! I get what you are saying. And I'm not arguing that women aren't equal to men in the church... What I am saying is that the OP was sharing about her relationship with her mum and discussing from her own private life perspective and how she feels. And you've come steam rolling telling her she is wrong. When she isn't wrong. She isn't talking about the female injustice of the church leadership she's talking about her mum and what her mum taught her. We all know the church is patriarchal and racist. There is no denying that. But this thread isn't intended to debate and jump into that. It is just one person sharing her experience, her relationship and her love for her mum. Yes she touches on her mum being limited and men being above her but that isn't her message.

So it was harsh that you took one part and jumped on it without respecting the full essence of the blog.

Edit: I don't know what YMMV means.

I am not making statements about a religion. I am pointing out that the response to the OP was unnecessary.

Yes!

It was a bit discouraging for the only reply (initially) to seem to completely miss my point. I've said tons about sexism in the church. I have lots of ideas I've shared about it.

But right now I am just in crisis mode and I am thinking of the things that strengthen me, because that's what I need. I wrote this and wanted to share.

Our lives transcend the church. It's just a thing ultimately. My mother is more than the institution with which she associated.

[IWMP]

This is a beautiful post. Thank you for sharing. Don't beat yourself up. It sounds like you have a beautiful relationship with your mum even if you are walking down a different path. And regardless of your belief differences, she's still your mum and it's clear she still taught you with love and respect and all of those things are transferable into your life outside of the church.

And maybe she was happy even though men created boundaries for her. Some people like having boundaries.

She was capable of extending that love and those lessons even within that dynamic. (And that sense of her being bound by men and having to have things checked over probably looks worse from your perspective that from hers.)

Well done for getting out of the abuse and you aren't alone. Her lessons are with you. You've got this.

Thank you.

Yes! I get what you are saying. And I'm not arguing that women aren't equal to men in the church... What I am saying is that the OP was sharing about her relationship with her mum and discussing from her own private life perspective and how she feels. And you've come steam rolling telling her she is wrong. When she isn't wrong. She isn't talking about the female injustice of the church leadership she's talking about her mum and what her mum taught her. We all know the church is patriarchal and racist. There is no denying that. But this thread isn't intended to debate and jump into that. It is just one person sharing her experience, her relationship and her love for her mum. Yes she touches on her mum being limited and men being above her but that isn't her message.

So it was harsh that you took one part and jumped on it without respecting the full essence of the blog.

Edit: I don't know what YMMV means.

I am not making statements about a religion. I am pointing out that the response to the OP was unnecessary.

Yes!

It was a bit discouraging for the only reply (initially) to seem to completely miss my point. I've said tons about sexism in the church. I have lots of ideas I've shared about it.

But right now I am just in crisis mode and I am thinking of the things that strengthen me, because that's what I need. I wrote this and wanted to share.

Our lives transcend the church. It's just a thing ultimately. My mother is more than the institution with which she associated.

I absolutely agree with you. How are you doing? Do you have anyone to talk to? You don't need to think about sexism right now. It's not a big deal. What helps you through this transition period is what matters. Sending love x

[Marcus]

...It was a bit discouraging for the only reply (initially) to seem to completely miss my point. I've said tons about sexism in the church. I have lots of ideas I've shared about it.

But right now I am just in crisis mode and I am thinking of the things that strengthen me, because that's what I need. I wrote this and wanted to share.

Our lives transcend the church. It's just a thing ultimately. My mother is more than the institution with which she associated.

I am sorry I made you feel that way. I was focused on only the part about what has been taught within the institution, and it didn't dawn on me at first that you had written that, I thought you were just quoting it, so I just responded with how I felt.

I lost my mother more than 25 years ago. She was so accomplished and intelligent, but her entire life was fully and completely restricted by the LDS church requirements on a woman.

One of the last things she told me was that I would 'regret not listening to the priesthood.'

We were visiting my parents' ward, and my then husband described me to a room full of men during priesthood meeting as a 'satellite' to his 'rocket,' who, to his dismay, seemed to think I was a 'rocket' myself, and he asked for advice because he couldn't control me. My father said nothing, but worst of all, neither did my mother. She's the one who told me he said it. I was shaken to my core, and decided right then, that that life was not for me.

I am so glad you had good experiences and have good memories. I hope my children will think positively of me when that time comes.

[IWMP]

...It was a bit discouraging for the only reply (initially) to seem to completely miss my point. I've said tons about sexism in the church. I have lots of ideas I've shared about it.

But right now I am just in crisis mode and I am thinking of the things that strengthen me, because that's what I need. I wrote this and wanted to share.

Our lives transcend the church. It's just a thing ultimately. My mother is more than the institution with which she associated.

I am sorry I made you feel that way. I was focused on only the part about what has been taught within the institution, and it didn't dawn on me at first that you had written that, I thought you were just quoting it, so I just responded with how I felt.

I lost my mother more than 25 years ago. She was so accomplished and intelligent, but her entire life was fully and completely restricted by the LDS church requirements on a woman.

One of the last things she told me was that I would 'regret not listening to the priesthood.'

We were visiting my parents' ward, and my then husband described me to a room full of men during priesthood meeting as a 'satellite' to his 'rocket,' who, to his dismay, seemed to think I was a 'rocket' myself, and he asked for advice because he couldn't control me. My father said nothing, but worst of all, neither did my mother. She's the one who told me he said it. I was shaken to my core, and decided right then, that that life was not for me.

I am so glad you had good experiences and have good memories. I hope my children will think positively of me when that time comes.

Wow, your then-husband sounds like a treat! Glad he is in the past tense of your life.

[Meadowchik]

I absolutely agree with you. How are you doing? Do you have anyone to talk to? You don't need to think about sexism right now. It's not a big deal. What helps you through this transition period is what matters. Sending love x

I am doing pretty good. Had a pretty big important week and a new chapter of life begins. It is a relief. Yes, I have people to talk to, thank you!

[IWMP]

I absolutely agree with you. How are you doing? Do you have anyone to talk to? You don't need to think about sexism right now. It's not a big deal. What helps you through this transition period is what matters. Sending love x

I am doing pretty good. Had a pretty big important week and a new chapter of life begins. It is a relief. Yes, I have people to talk to, thank you!

Good luck with your new chapter.