Off Topic Split from 33 Years With New Questions

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Pyreaux
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Re: 33 years with new questions

Post by Pyreaux »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:33 am
In what way was it a "nuisance?"
—something that posed a danger to the safety and welfare of society as determined by the Nauvoo City Council, based on American legal precedent and William Blackstone’s commentary (an influential treatise on common law). There were many instances, both before and after this time, of local and state governments suppressing unpopular presses.

We know the publishers of the Nauvoo Expositor, such as William Law and others were conspiring to murder Joseph and his family beforehand, and on June 7th, 1844, the first (and only) edition of the Nauvoo Expositor was published. It charged Joseph with various crimes and labeling him a “blood thirsty and murderous...demon...in human shape” and “one of the blackest and basest scoundrels that has appeared upon the stage of human existence since the days of Nero, and Caligula”. Its agenda was to incite vigilante mob violence, therefore threatening the safety of society.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: 33 years with new questions

Post by Res Ipsa »

Pyreaux wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:34 pm
Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:33 am
In what way was it a "nuisance?"
—something that posed a danger to the safety and welfare of society as determined by the Nauvoo City Council, based on American legal precedent and William Blackstone’s commentary (an influential treatise on common law). There were many instances, both before and after this time, of local and state governments suppressing unpopular presses.

We know the publishers of the Nauvoo Expositor, such as William Law and others were conspiring to murder Joseph and his family beforehand, and on June 7th, 1844, the first (and only) edition of the Nauvoo Expositor was published. It charged Joseph with various crimes and labeling him a “blood thirsty and murderous...demon...in human shape” and “one of the blackest and basest scoundrels that has appeared upon the stage of human existence since the days of Nero, and Caligula”. Its agenda was to incite vigilante mob violence, therefore threatening the safety of society.
Yet the actual text rejects mob violence. Immediately after the phrases you cite, the publication says:
We deplore the desperate
state of things to which we are neces-
sarily brought, but, we say to our
friends, “ keep cool,’” and the whole
tale will be told. We fully believe
in bringing these iniquities and enor-
mities to light, and let the majesty of
violated law, and the voice of injured
innocence and contemned public opin-
ion, speak in tones of thunder to these
miscreants; but in behalf of hundreds
and thousands of unoffending citizens,
whose only fault is religious enthu-
siasm, and for the honor of our own
names and reputation, let us not fol-
low their desperado measures, and
thereby dishonor ourselves in reveng-
ing our own wrongs. Let our motto
be, “Last in attack, but first in de-
fence;” and the result cannot prove
otherwise than honorable and satis-
factory.
he/him
we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.


— Alison Luterman
yellowstone123
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Re: Off Topic Split from 33 Years With New Questions

Post by yellowstone123 »

What two people of the early LDS church spoke, sent notes or letters in Nauvoo that created a plan to murder Joseph Smith? I love history and I've been on this earth 62 years and never seen or heard of such a thing.
“One of the important things for anybody in power is to distinguish between what you have the right to do and what is right to do." Potter Stewart, associate justice of the Supreme Court - 1958 to 1981.
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bill4long
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Re: 33 years with new questions

Post by bill4long »

Pyreaux wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:34 pm
—something that posed a danger to the safety and welfare of society as determined by the Nauvoo City Council, based on American legal precedent and William Blackstone’s commentary (an influential treatise on common law). There were many instances, both before and after this time, of local and state governments suppressing unpopular presses.
Hehe, yeah, the danger to Joe and his little kingdom.

The First Amendment. Get used to it.

William Law didn't put anything into the Nauvoo Expositer that wasn't true. He revealed Joe as the scoundrel that he was. And time has demonstrated that. He was in the First Presidency, and Emma loved him. A good unimpeachable and upright man.

William Law: the hero of Nauvoo. If there is an after-life, I want to shake your hand and give you a big hug.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: 33 years with new questions

Post by Res Ipsa »

bill4long wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 9:39 pm
Pyreaux wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:34 pm
—something that posed a danger to the safety and welfare of society as determined by the Nauvoo City Council, based on American legal precedent and William Blackstone’s commentary (an influential treatise on common law). There were many instances, both before and after this time, of local and state governments suppressing unpopular presses.
Hehe, yeah, the danger to Joe and his little kingdom.

The First Amendment. Get used to it.

William Law didn't put anything into the Nauvoo Expositer that wasn't true. He revealed Joe as the scoundrel that he was. And time has demonstrated that. He was in the First Presidency, and Emma loved him. A good unimpeachable and upright man.

William Law: the hero of Nauvoo. If there is an after-life, I want to shake your hand and give you a big hug.
The First Amendment did not apply to state or local governments until the 14th was passed.
he/him
we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.


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yellowstone123
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Re: Off Topic Split from 33 Years With New Questions

Post by yellowstone123 »

Pyreaux wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 3:27 pm
Moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:58 am
When Joseph Smith ordered the Nauvoo Expositor printing press to be destroyed, he had no idea of the consequences. He was still young and healthy and enjoyed a life of libertine indulgences.
The City Council ordered the Mayor, Joseph Smith to shut down the press, and it was legal. The outrage from Warsaw was not because of a newspaper of a city 30 miles away, it was a consequence of running for president, Govenor Ford thought Joseph was interfering the campaign of the Kentuckian Henry Clay. While Joseph may have not fully foreseen a political assassination, he knew perfectly the charge of inciting a riot to be tried in Warsaw was an assassination plot, he already escaped Nauvoo, and then returned to Nauvoo to surrender with a promise they leave Nauvoo alone, knowing he'd be killed, "like a lamb to the slaughter". Seems he did have a good idea of the consequences of surrender. He died a martyr for his cause, because he believed in it.
Freedom of the press is something that the United States Constitution permits and what the framers thought was important.

"The incorporating act permitted the city council—made up of the mayor, four aldermen, and nine councilors—to pass any ordinance for the benefit and well-being of the city, as long as the ordinance was “not repugnant” or inconsistent with the U.S. or Illinois constitutions."

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/intro ... eas-corpus
“One of the important things for anybody in power is to distinguish between what you have the right to do and what is right to do." Potter Stewart, associate justice of the Supreme Court - 1958 to 1981.
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bill4long
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Re: 33 years with new questions

Post by bill4long »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 11:39 pm
The First Amendment did not apply to state or local governments until the 14th was passed.
The Illinois state constitution effectively enshrined the same rights:

Art 8:22, which was in effect in 1844: The printing presses shall be free to every person, who undertakes to examine the proceedings of the general assembly or of any branch of government; and no law shall ever be made to restrain the right thereof. The free communication of thoughts and opinions is one of the invaluable rights of man, and every citizen may freely speak, write, and print on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty. (The Illinois constitution uses somewhat different wording today.)
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Re: 33 years with new questions

Post by Res Ipsa »

bill4long wrote:
Thu May 02, 2024 3:38 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2024 11:39 pm
The First Amendment did not apply to state or local governments until the 14th was passed.
The Illinois state constitution effectively enshrined the same rights:

Art 8:22, which was in effect in 1844: The printing presses shall be free to every person, who undertakes to examine the proceedings of the general assembly or of any branch of government; and no law shall ever be made to restrain the right thereof. The free communication of thoughts and opinions is one of the invaluable rights of man, and every citizen may freely speak, write, and print on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty. (The Illinois constitution uses somewhat different wording today.)
Do you have a link? I looked briefly at the version at the version of the Illinois Constitution that was in effect at the time and must have missed what you found.

Never mind — found it in the Constitution of 1818. http://www.dircost.unito.it/cs/pdf/1818 ... is_eng.pdf
he/him
we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.


— Alison Luterman
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