Mormonism as Christianity- a proof from an outside perpsective

[Hound of Heaven]

That doesn’t follow, logically

Yes, it does!

[I Have Questions]

That doesn’t follow, logically

Yes, it does!

No. it doesn’t. I can be aware of what the Church has taught over the years and also not have come across any Mormon man who has secretly dreamt of how he would operate his own planet. Not every Mormon thinks like you do, regardless of what they have been taught.

[Physics Guy]

If you haven't encountered any Mormons who have envisioned or talked about what their future planets might be like, then you really don't understand Mormonism at all!

[A]nyone reading this who identifies as a Mormon or ex-Mormon has likely contemplated and maybe even dreamed about the notion of becoming a God at some point in their lives, especially in their younger years.

All that Hound of Heaven is actually saying here is that most Mormons have thought about running their own planet, at least once in their lives, at least briefly. The statements mention talking about the idea, or dreaming about it, but in "or" clauses. So there's a suggestion that the planet thing may have been a bit bigger deal for some Mormons, but no claim that most Mormons have done more than consider the possibility at some point.

I certainly don't know much about how most modern Mormons actually think, day-to-day, so I take this point, about most Mormons knowing that they might one day rule a planet, as a worthwhile contribution to this thread. It makes sense to me, from my outsider perspective. I understand that the Mormon doctrine of Exaltation does imply something like ruling one or more planets at some point, and so I'd actually be surprised if only a few Mormons had ever thought at all about such a thing. I reckon that if I were Mormon and heard about the concept at some point, I'd definitely sit down and think about how it would be, at least for a few moments.

And I think the point is a relevant one to this thread about how Christian Mormonism really is. Exaltation and eternal progression in the Mormon senses aren't Christian mainstream. Asserting that they're actually pretty important to Mormons, even if not discussed openly much, is a fair point to make in this thread. I can't say whether it's true or not, but to me it seems plausible, so I'd like to hear it discussed.

A rebuttal might be to say that sure, the concepts are there in Mormon doctrine, and people have heard of them, but that no, as specific beliefs they're really not important to Mormons, because they're really only a peculiarly Mormon way of expressing the vague hope of most Christians that the afterlife will somehow be awesome. One might perhaps say that Mormons only think about ruling personal planets as much as Presbyterians think about having wings and gold harps: it's a traditional symbol, and people take the thing it's supposed to symbolise seriously, but not the symbol itself.

[Gadianton]

For life-long multi-generational members, I would be shocked if any member is unaware of the doctrine that they will become Gods one day and create worlds without end. Not just a single stupid planet. I absolutely believed this. The more savvy ones would likely deny it publicly because they know how ridiculous it sounds. Every once in a while you'll get an Elder's quorum or gospel doctrine class that goes off the rails and people will speculate about this doctrine a bit. My dad wasn't one of the reserved types, and had no problem hinting at it or carefully bringing it up with members and non-members alike, because he liked to test people -- in his mind this was super deep, mind-blowing stuff that most people just can't handle.

As far as thinking about running your own planet, I can't say I ever thought about it. I can't say I recall anybody talking about it in that way. Reasons for that? A big part of it might be that most people would see this prospect as so far in the future, after so much training and schooling and whatever else, that while they accept the fact it can happen, they can't really imagine or anticipate it as one might anticipate going to Disneyland. They don't see themselves in that role. My experiences speaking with other people about this might have an upper bound of say, 20, and so there might be strain of TBM who really does contemplate being Gods and I just never met one. A speculative answer as to why TBMs are unlikely to contemplate such things, is that there's not much to it. This doctrine is never passed around in my experience as anything that involves one whit of creative license. You're running by a script. All the worlds that come and go follow the same basic pattern, though some may be more righteous or wicked than others.

[Physics Guy]

So Exaltation is kind of a franchise? You can be a God the way you can be a McDonald’s owner or a Ford dealer, running your own show but along the corporation’s strict lines? That would seem to take a lot of the fun out of it.

[Gadianton]

So Exaltation is kind of a franchise? You can be a God the way you can be a McDonald’s owner or a Ford dealer, running your own show but along the corporation’s strict lines? That would seem to take a lot of the fun out of it.

Whoah: fun? You just said the "f" word. Mormons don't have fun, they have joy. As missionaries, we were lectured on this point from time to time.

[msnobody]

Edited— Now that I look back over the three pages in this thread, it looks like the original post/poster was a post and run, and that I’ll likely not get a response from the OP’er.

It seems to me that the original poster is defining a Christian by whether a person believes Jesus is God.

[Res Ipsa]

So Exaltation is kind of a franchise? You can be a God the way you can be a McDonald’s owner or a Ford dealer, running your own show but along the corporation’s strict lines? That would seem to take a lot of the fun out of it.

More like a pyramid scheme. You get to be a God for every planet in your down line.

[Moksha]

More like a pyramid scheme. You get to be a God for every planet in your down line.

The Ur-God for the Church of a Victory for Satan.

[Physics Guy]

Edited— Now that I look back over the three pages in this thread, it looks like the original post/poster was a post and run, and that I’ll likely not get a response from the OP’er.

It seems to me that the original poster is defining a Christian by whether a person believes Jesus is God.

Yeah, probably. It's too bad, because the issue is important: Jesus may be God, but what does "God" mean? The Mormon answer seems to be something much less than Jews, mainline Christians, and Muslims would agree to call "God".