Homosexuality Thread for the Celestial Forum

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Physics Guy
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Re: Official Homosexuality Thread for the Celestial Forum

Post by Physics Guy »

These barbaric laws are in the same category with burning for witchcraft. In 1895 England Wilde was at least not castrated, and he wasn't punished any worse than people were for various other crimes, but his punishment was pretty bad. He was confined, and addressed by a number, and had to do hard physical work with inadequate food. At one point he collapsed from exhaustion and injured himself, and there's a chance that this injury was the physical cause of his eventual premature death.

Oscar Wilde was sometimes pretty dumb. His legal ordeal began when he sued someone else for libel. Being dumb in Wilde's way shouldn't be punished that harshly, however. And Wilde was certainly brilliant. The Importance of Being Earnest is still performed—and still funny. The Picture of Dorian Gray is still studied in schools. Lots of Wilde's quotes are still memes.

It's a shame on modern Christianity that so many more Christian-stream religions have stood against gay rights instead of fighting for them, as evangelical Christianity did once take the vanguard in fighting western slavery. Instead far too many professed followers of the crucified God have eagerly pounded in nails when there was a cross for gay people.

I was recently on a flight (with a lot of quarantining on both ends) with two gay dads bringing home their first child. I helped them manage their mass of backpacks and the flight attendant fussed happily over the baby just as with any other new family. Things have gotten better at last. Religious people can thank God if we wish, but on the whole it's with little thanks to religious people. That won't be forgotten. Nor should it be.
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Shulem
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Re: Official Homosexuality Thread for the Celestial Forum

Post by Shulem »

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:00 pm
These barbaric laws are in the same category with burning for witchcraft.

Yes, the barbarism and cruel nature of men and laws of that era and time repulse me. Knowing what I know now, and being who I am today, I can surely say that I would not want anything to to do with the Latter-day Saints or its unenlightened leaders who were responsible for acts that were nothing less than Satanically evil. Had I been there, I would have hopped a horse and rode out of Utah so fast it would make your head spin. The thought of being subject to Brigham Young or facing the threat of castration makes me ill. So, I won't think of that any longer and leave the past in the past where it belongs. I know what kind of man Young was. I would never, ever, want to meet him -- not in this life or any other.

Now, what shall I bring up from the Church Homosexuality Manual? Hmmm. Let me think . . . .
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Blame the parents!

Post by Shulem »

Published by the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles wrote:
1 . Disturbed Family Background

a) A key factor in the development of
both male and female homosexuality
seems to be the lack of a warm,
supportive, affectionate relationship
between the individual and his father.
Many times the father is either
physically or emotionally uninvolved
in his child's life or is punishing and
authoritarian.

b) The mother usually attempts to fill
the physical and emotional void left
by the father. Some mothers are
overprotective and dominant.

c) Because of inadequate parental
examples in the home, the child
does not learn proper masculine and
feminine behavior.

d) The relationship between mother
and father is often strained, hostile,
and competitive

a) I addressed point a) in an earlier post, "Blame the father?". It's presumed the unloving father of a homosexual child is a "key factor" or reason that children develop homosexuality. So, it's important that fathers be more loving in order to stave off homosexual development. Apparently, the Church feels that loving fathers can reduce the risk of their children turning into full-blown homosexuals. If the child does resort to a homosexual lifestyle, the resulting consequences may include a stigma upon the father's reputation and a general sense of guilt and failure.

b) The Church maintains that overprotective or dominant behaving mothers may also effect the development of homosexuality in their children. It's claimed to have been shown to be a consistent factor, so mothers need to be on guard!

c) Parental elements that are particularly responsible for developing homosexuality in children are parents that fail to properly act their roles in showing what it means to be masculine and what it means to be feminine. In a nutshell, men must dress and act like men and women must dress and act like women.

d) The Church is adamant that homosexual behavior is learned, and is influenced by unhealthy emotional development in early childhood that is manifested in a strained relationship of parents who exhibit hostility and competitive traits.

CONCLUSION:

One need not wonder why this particular section in the Manual is entitled:

"Disturbed Family Background"
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Re: Official Homosexuality Thread for the Celestial Forum

Post by Res Ipsa »

Just wanted to duck in to let you know that I'm reading the thread and think you're doing a very nice job here. SWK was "my" prophet in high school and college. He seemed like such a sweet old guy that everybody loved. Now I look back at some of the things he said and I can't help but cringe.

Carry on.
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Re: Official Homosexuality Thread for the Celestial Forum

Post by Shulem »

Thank you for the wonderful compliment, Res Ipsa. I will make every effort to maintain a quality thread and will be happy to field any comments others may like to present. This thread will remain respectful and worthy of the Celestial Forum.

President Kimball was my youth prophet too. Church members greatly revered him, perhaps as much as David O. McKay. I remember Kimball's passing while serving in the army as a faithful Latter-day Saint, and striving to live the law of chastity to the best of my ability. I married 3 years later and fathered 2 children. The marriage lasted precisely 20 years.
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Re: Official Homosexuality Thread for the Celestial Forum

Post by Shulem »

Published by the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles wrote:
2. Poor Relationship with Peers

a) The individual sees himself as
being different from peers; therefore,
he tends to become isolated and
lonely.

b) His peers often see him as
different, and they label and reject
him.

c) The individual often uses
homosexual behavior as a way to
gain acceptance. Because he needs
warmth and love, he is attracted by
the apparent acceptance of others
who engage in homosexual activities.

d) Because he is isolated from
others, he does not develop
fundamental social skills and
attitudes.

a) Coming out "gay" in the 1970's era was a difficult time because there were little or no support groups to rely on wherein one might not feel so isolated and lonely. The stigma of being branded a homosexual was a scary ordeal. The realization of being different automatically puts an individual on the defensive.

b) The Church automatically rejected homosexuality in every form and labeled it as unnatural and sinful. The fact that one is different is beside the point.

c) Everyone wants to be loved and accepted; that is a universal trait inherent in all humans. Everyone craves and needs warmth and love -- again, this is universal. A person who is sexually attracted to the same sex is naturally going to seek and want love through mutual expression in that kind of relationship.

d) A homosexual that feels shunned and isolated by his surrounding society is going to withdraw and not develop *normal* social skills and attitudes enjoyed by his heterosexual peers. How can one possibly be *normal* when they are "different"?
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Mormon Talk's Not Gay

Post by Shulem »

Let's take a break and enjoy a special video presentation on a family rated YouTube show that is highly endorsed by Dr. Shades.

Please enjoy Mormon Talk 2021 (Talent Talk):

Fast forward and select the 1:52:30 mark

Enjoy the Spirit!
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Re: Mormon Talk's Not Gay

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:37 am
Fast forward and select the 1:52:30 mark

Enjoy the Spirit!
Brett Call seems to have misinterpreted the meaning. Perhaps the word "gay" is too much of a red flag for true blue Mormons.
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Re: Mormon Talk's Not Gay

Post by phaedrus ut »

Moksha wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:57 pm
Shulem wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:37 am
Fast forward and select the 1:52:30 mark

Enjoy the Spirit!
Brett Call seems to have misinterpreted the meaning. Perhaps the word "gay" is too much of a red flag for true blue Mormons.
I keep seeing these guys come across various social platforms and have assumed it's a long troll of someone playing naïve Mormons. It's fake right?
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Mormon Talk's Sincerity

Post by Moksha »

phaedrus ut wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:50 pm
I keep seeing these guys come across various social platforms and have assumed it's a long troll of someone playing naïve Mormons. It's fake right?
Are you referring to their Mormonism or the podcasters' sincerity? Best to ask Dr. Shades since he follows all of their podcasts. These two young men seem much more sincere than the most recent FAIRMormon podcasts.

by the way, Phaedrus ut, welcome to the forum!
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