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If the proposition was put forward that:

Parents should value their children over the bigotry of the Church.

How do you think this would be argued at the Mormon D&D board?

Moksha wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:36 pm

If the proposition was put forward that:

Parents should value their children over the bigotry of the Church.

How do you think this would be argued at the Mormon D&D board?

The Church is on record for horrible policies and bigotry towards LGBTQ persons. Here is a clip from elder Ballard addressing the issues in the October 2005 General Conference:

Elder M. Russell Ballard Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote:Brothers and sisters, this year marks the 10th anniversary of the proclamation to the world on the family, which was issued by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in 1995. It was then and is now a clarion call to protect and strengthen families and a stern warning in a world where declining values and misplaced priorities threaten to destroy society by undermining its basic unit.

(LGBTQ threatens to “destroy” society)

The proclamation is a prophetic document, not only because it was issued by prophets but because it was ahead of its time. It warns against many of the very things that have threatened and undermined families during the last decade and calls for the priority and the emphasis families need if they are to survive in an environment that seems ever more toxic to traditional marriage and to parent-child relationships.

(LGBTQ is “toxic” (poisonous) to traditional marriage and parent-child relationships)

The proclamation’s clear and simple language stands in stark contrast to the confused and convoluted notions of a society that cannot even agree on a definition of family, let alone supply the help and support parents and families need. You are familiar with such words from the proclamation as these:

(LGBTQ is convoluted and incapable of providing family help and support)

Further, we call upon all public institutions to examine themselves and to do less that might harm families and more that will help them.

(LGBTQ not allowed!)

We call upon the media to offer more that promotes traditional family values and is uplifting and supportive of families and less that popularizes immorality and materialism.

(LGBTQ not allowed!)

We call upon government and political leaders to put the needs of children and parents first and to think in terms of family impact in all legislation and policy making.

(LGBTQ not allowed!)

We call upon Internet providers and Web site creators to become more responsible regarding their potential for influence and to adopt the conscious objective of protecting children from violence, pornography, filth, and sleaze.

(LGBTQ not allowed!)

We call upon educational entities to teach universal values and family and parenting skills, supporting parents in their responsibility to raise children to become the leaders of families in generations yet to come.

(LGBTQ not allowed!)

In my view, elder Ballard is not a good person. He has done more to harm the world than help the world and is accountable for all his misdeeds. All of the apostles of Mormonism are enemies to LGBTQ rights and values.

In 2008, the Church sought to impose their current religious tradition of the definition of marriage on all others. The Church was in favor of religion overruling the rights and freedoms of all others in order to impose oppression against LGBTQ in California and the United States.

http://www.preservingmarriage.org/

PRESERVING THE DIVINE INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE
An Official Web site of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2008 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

PRESERVING THE DIVINE INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE wrote:What’s the harm?

If Proposition 8 fails, religious liberties and freedom of speech may be curtailed. Included are the rights of religious organizations to speak out against positions they view as harmful and the rights of parents to teach their children their own values and beliefs.

The above statement is simply not true. Freedom of speech and religion for the Mormon people are guaranteed rights under the US Constitution. What the Mormons are really saying is that they are afraid of the changing social attitudes and values of the American people regarding gay marriage. Mormons fear they will appear intolerant and perceived as homophobic persecutors by freedom loving people everywhere. The legalization of gay marriage in no way curtails the Mormons from continuing to denounce the so-called evils of homosexuality at their church pulpits. They may freely teach whatever religious values and beliefs they want to their own children. The notion that religious rights will be curtailed just because gays have the legal right to marry is nothing less than fear promoted by a prejudice church -- namely, the Mormons.

The following statement made by the Church website demonstrates that Mormons want to restrict LGBTQ couples to second class citizenship with reduced rights under the law:

PRESERVING THE DIVINE INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE wrote:Does Proposition 8 take existing rights away from same-sex couples?

No. All the rights gay couples have in current civil unions will still be in force.

The rights granted to gay couples under civil unions are limited in scope and have fewer privileges than those who are legally married. The definition of marriage is two persons that choose to enjoy a union together. This is a free country and religions do not dictate the definition of marriage or how people must live their lives.

PRESERVING THE DIVINE INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE wrote:Don’t gay and lesbian couples deserve to be happy?

The argument of happiness is really just a diversion. Proposition 8 is about protecting the legal definition of marriage and religious freedoms.

The Mormon argument “happiness is really just a diversion” is insulting! The Church belittle the happiness of LGBTQ people as if it were only a diversion tactic. But isn’t it the Mormons that are using “happiness” as a diversion tactic when they constantly quote Alma 41:3 in their anti-gay sermons, “Wickedness never was happiness?” The argument that wickedness (homosexuality) never was happiness is in itself a diversion tactic offered up by Mormon leaders to convince their people that gays really aren’t happy. Thus, the Church judges all LGBTQ people under a single blanket.

The Church claims that Proposition 8 is about protecting the so-called legal definition of marriage. Isn’t it really about enforcing their religious traditions and mandating their values as the standard for all American citizens? They claim their religious freedoms are at risk just because gays legally marry. How so?

Clearly, it is the Mormons that are putting the civil rights of LGBTQ people at risk and denying them the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness, afforded and guaranteed under the Constitution.

PRESERVING THE DIVINE INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE wrote:Isn’t Proposition 8 about intolerance?

Proposition 8 isn’t about hating gay couples or their lifestyle. It’s about protecting the institution of marriage.

Not about hating the gay lifestyle? What?

The statement contradicts countless official statements made by leaders of the church and squarely opposes the basic tenet that teaches: Hate the sin but love the sinner. The Church attempts to sugar-coat their position and fool people into thinking they don’t hate the gay lifestyle. But the Church in reality views the gay lifestyle as a life of sin. They hate it! They want to impose their values on everyone else and deny the right to marry the person of one’s choice. The Church wants to force its definition of marriage on everyone else. That is oppression!

Shulem wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:23 pm

PRESERVING THE DIVINE INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE wrote:Isn’t Proposition 8 about intolerance?
Proposition 8 isn’t about hating gay couples or their lifestyle. It’s about protecting the institution of marriage.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, when it was realized that communists would not be around to hate on anymore, the Brethren selected the LGBTQ community as a group they could safely hate on. They did not realize the rest of the world would abandon this hatred, leaving the Brethren's need to hate exposed and an object of scorn among the Church's younger members. The young members can easily see through their false rhetoric and spot the deception in claiming this was about protecting the institution of marriage. It was about the need to hate a designated group.

Moksha wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:41 am

The young members can easily see through their false rhetoric and spot the deception in claiming this was about protecting the institution of marriage. It was about the need to hate a designated group.

You don’t say?

HOT OFF THE PRESS only six hours ago

Here is a very interesting 20 minute podcast that explores how homosexuality is being hotly contested within movements of modern Mormonism:

The Woke Worldview Part 5: LDS Professor Dan McClellan, A Case Study.

Dan McClellan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTiq0NW1pNU&t=5s

The hypocrisy of today’s Mormon Church in sweeping the teachings of past leaders of the Church under the rug is utterly appalling. The Church has a history of treating LGBTQ people in a cruel and unjust manner.

Here is a little video clip of Church leaders spewing misguided hatred towards LGBTQ people and while along thinking themselves holy and just as they pay tribute to a God who hates people for being who they are:

Why We Left the Mormon Church: A Coming Out Story

Was Mark E Petersen gay? I don't know, but didn't he say something about never seeing his wife nude? Red flag for gayness, in my opinion.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

The checkered history of senior Church leaders in respect of matters of gender and identity is entirely understandable (albeit reprehensible in the cold light of a 21st-century day) if we can simply take a step back, and then another, and another — until we are sufficiently distant from the issues to view them from an entirely new perspective.

And here it is: "Gender and identity: Biology loads the gun. Society (family, faith, and secular) pulls the trigger."

Discuss.