DiscussMormonism.com

In another thread, a quote of Dr. Peterson’s regarding Calvinism was shared, followed a comment by Physics Guy:

Peterson’s not going to shrug and accept predestined damnation as a respectable alternative religious belief—and I can only applaud.

I imagine I share the opinion of many that the idea of predestined eternal destination is a hard pill to swallow. But, I’m wondering if Mormonism, even with the hyper-focus on free will within the “Plan of Salvation,” doesn’t ultimately adhere to predestination.

I am certainly no logician or philosopher, so I am at the mercy of others to correct and/or educate me if I am incorrect. Wouldn’t any religion with a heaven/hell post-death destination belief, which also includes an omniscient deity, ultimately believe in predestined damnation?

The only way to circumvent the predestination component would be to have a deity who isn’t fully omniscient, yes?

If that is correct, then it seems that a key component of whether there is truly free will would depend on what God’s foreknowledge ultimately entails. If He knows every choice you will make, and what your final judgement will be (I’m thinking along the lines of an unqualified “I know the end from the beginning” [Abr 2:8]), you’re pretty much predestined for your eternal fate.

Or am I missing/overlooking something deeper?

Are we certain there is such a thing as predestined damnation in the Church? Can God really foresee that Brother V. Ralston Jones will fall behind on his tithing payment or that Elder L. Cyrano Midgley will get so angry that he spontaneously combusts while zoom viewing his Sacrament meeting?

Anyway, it is a worthwhile question.

I know the Saints would argue that they do not have a systematic theology and as such cannot be pinned down on theological matters.

There’s at least some kind of distinction between knowing something in advance and determining it in advance. If you haven’t seen The Empire Strikes Back, I have a spoiler for you about a family relationship. But I’m not George Lucas.

Physics Guy wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:05 pm

There’s at least some kind of distinction between knowing something in advance and determining it in advance. If you haven’t seen The Empire Strikes Back, I have a spoiler for you about a family relationship. But I’m not George Lucas.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, there's a distinction between God determining that you are going to hell, vs. God knowing you are going to hell.

Kind of God knows, but is powerless to change it(?)

Either is powerless or just chooses not to change a situation that was determined by you. That’s the idea.

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I don’t see this. Just because I know how the film ends doesn’t mean I wrote the script.

Is this where the conjunction of omniscient and omnipotent comes into the discussion?

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:09 pm

Is this where the conjunction of omniscient and omnipotent comes into the discussion?

I think so. One at least has to consider God’s role in creating humans. What are the ramifications if it turns out he’s head of central casting?

Res Ipsa wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:43 pm

I think so. One at least has to consider God’s role in creating humans. What are the ramifications if it turns out he’s head of central casting?

I never really liked the omnis, but I suppose that Christian theology will always ultimately raise the question of where the buck stops.