“I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon”

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Re: “I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon”

Post by Moksha »

What if Joseph not having the words adobe brick used the word stone, and not having the word miniaturized used the expression "in the manner of"? They were living in a limited 10 ten SLC block area of the Yucatan that was divided by a stream into an upper and lower land region.
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Re: “I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon”

Post by Kishkumen »

Shulem wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 2:55 am
Kishkumen,

Indeed, so many questions. Smith’s blanket explanation for the practices held within the temple were nicely summed up in that they kept the Law of Moses. That’s it. Nothing else. Smith never ventured further other than an altar was made whereby sacrifice and prayer are offered up to the Lord.

This thread is all about BASE BUILDING CONSTRUCTION of the temple and how Smith avoided that and was caught messing with things he knew nothing about. We caught Smith, playing with things he knew nothing about and acting like he could write history when in fact he was ignorant and should have stuck with a simple plot. I’m afraid Cowdery was not able to catch him in the act and say, “Hey, Joseph, I don’t think those guys could have built a stone building like that all by themselves.”

There is NOTHING that can substitute building a temple that will last for hundreds of years other than hewn stone blocks, set in place, meticulously, tightly, and perfectly in place. Mud bricks won’t do. Wood won’t do.

It’s set in stone.
Sorry, Shulem, but could you remind me of the passage in which the temple of Nephi being built of stone is mentioned?
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Re: “I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon”

Post by Shulem »

Kishkumen wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:10 pm
Sorry, Shulem, but could you remind me of the passage in which the temple of Nephi being built of stone is mentioned?

Can you count to 10? Can you repeat the alphabet in perfect order?

Shall we hold hands? Let us sing a song? Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya . . . .

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wrote: Nephites working on the temple
Various Nephites come together to build the temple in the Land of Nephi.

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Re: “I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon”

Post by Kishkumen »

Shulem wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:21 pm
Can you count to 10? Can you repeat the alphabet in perfect order?

Shall we hold hands? Let us sing a song? Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya . . . .
There aren't any?
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Re: “I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon”

Post by Shulem »

Moksha wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 7:29 am
What if Joseph not having the words adobe brick used the word stone, and not having the word miniaturized used the expression "in the manner of"? They were living in a limited 10 ten SLC block area of the Yucatan that was divided by a stream into an upper and lower land region.

Moksha,

If you look really close maybe you’ll be able to see the word “STONE” engraved on one of the stones used to build “the walls of the temple.” Do you think?

If the camera panned over to the left, you’d probably see an electric extension cord and some power tools. Pan to the right and you’ll see a Ford truck loaded with props.

Do you think?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wrote:
And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine.

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Re: “I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon”

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:33 pm
Do you think?
I try to keep it to a minimum, besides most of it has already been done.

They were living in a limited 10 ten SLC block area of the Yucatan that was divided by a stream into an upper and lower land region.
So does this apologetic seem promising? That small area could be waiting for discovery by BYU archeology students.
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TIMES AND SEASONS

Post by Shulem »

The prophet Joseph Smith was the chief editor of the TIMES AND SEASONS in 1842 and was more than willing to testify that stone buildings in Central America were a testament to the Nephites who built them, including the stone temple built by Nephi as recorded in the Book of Mormon. The many stone buildings in Central America serve as proof that the Nephites built with stone, more especially, a stone temple built by Nephi -- the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon, made of stone.

The buck stops with Joseph Smith, period:

TIMES AND SEASONS, SEPT. 15, 1842 wrote: Extract
From Stephens’ “Incidents of Travel in Central America.

....The building was constructed of stone with a mortar of lime and sand, and the whole front was covered with stucco and painted.

....The whole tower was a substantial stone structure,

etc.

The foregoing extract has been made to assist the Latter-Day Saints, in establishing the Book of Mormon as a revelation from God. It affords great joy to have the world assist us to so much proof, that even the most credulous cannot doubt. We are sorry that we could not afford the expense to give the necessary cuts referred to in the original.

Let us turn our subject, however, to the Book of Mormon, where these wonderful ruins of Palenque are among the mighty works of the Nephites:—and the mystery is solved.

On the 72d page of the third and fourth edition of the Book of Mormon it reads as follows: And it came to pass that we began to prosper exceedingly, and to multiply in the land. And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites, should come upon us and destroy us: for I knew their hatred towards me and my children, and those who were called my people. And I did teach my people, to build buildings: and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance. And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon, save it were not built of so many precious things: for they were not to be found upon the land; wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceeding fine.
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Re: “I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon”

Post by Brack »

FAIR used to have this as their response to Nephi's temple being built after the manner of Solomon's temple.
Question: Were there not enough people available in Nephi's time to build a temple "after the manner of the temple of Solomon"?

Nephi is saying the he built a temple that was of the same pattern Solomon's temple, but he does not say that it was of the same size
This criticism presumes that the Lehite immigrants are the only work-force available, but this is almost certainly not true. (See: Book of Mormon demographics.)
Even if one presumes that the Lehite colony and the Nephite break-off are the only workforce—a dubious assumption—this only means that the temple would have been smaller—this seems likely in any case, since Nephi only says he built it "after the manner" of Solomon's temple, but not in so grand a style because of local restrictions.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150908010 ... _New_World

But the Book of Mormon doesn't state that there were "others" after they arrived, and the Nephites are described as a "lonesome and a solemn people" within the text of the Book of Mormon. (See Jacob 7:26) The current FAIR response on Nephi's temple doesn't have the link to "Book of Mormon demographics" on this. Here is the current FAIR response to this.
Nephi records that after their separation from the Lamanites, his people built a temple "after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things" (2 Nephi 5:16). Smaller temples patterned after the temple of Solomon existed in ancient Israel at the time of Lehi in areas distant from Jerusalem. Israeli archaeologist Avraham Negev commented on one of these temples: "The most remarkable discovery at Arad is the temple which occupied the north-western corner of the citadel. . . . Its orientation, general plan and contents, especially the tabernacle, are similar to the Temple of Solomon."4 In other words, Nephi's construction of a simpler version of Solomon's temple in a remote location once he had established his people in a permanent city was not a unique event in Jewish history, but rather an expected occurrence, a fact of which Joseph Smith and his contemporaries (including especially his critic Alexander Campbell), lacking the aid of modern archaeology, would certainly have been unaware.[2]

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/evi ... nts/Temple

Don Bradley mentioned in his book that Nephi's temple was likely referred to as "the temple of Nephi" within the lost pages.
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Stone

Post by Shulem »

Kishkumen wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:25 pm
There aren't any?

You tell me? :D

The temple of Nephi was renovated hundreds of years after it was built under the administration of king Noah. The “walls of the temple” are specifically mentioned as though the original shell (base construction) was intact when new furnishings were installed:

Mosiah 11:10 wrote:And he also caused that his workmen should work all manner of fine work within the walls of the temple, of fine wood, and of copper, and of brass.

We may link the terminology of “walls” with that of Zeniff who repaired the walls of the city of Lehi-Nephi.

Mosiah 9:8 wrote:And we began to build buildings, and to repair the walls of the city, yea, even the walls of the city of Lehi-Nephi, and the city of Shilom.

What were the walls made of? The Nephites were apt to fortify and erect stone walls in various applications, but stone is always the preferred medium. Nephi knew that stone is the choice medium in construction and also quoted Isaiah who said, “The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones; the sycamores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars”.

So what are walls of stone made of?

Alma 48:8 wrote:Yea, he had been strengthening the armies of the Nephites, and erecting small forts, or places of resort; throwing up banks of earth round about to enclose his armies, and also building walls of stone to encircle them about, round about their cities and the borders of their lands; yea, all round about the land.
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Re: “I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon”

Post by Kishkumen »

I think it is possible that the first temple was a humble wooden structure that was later replaced by a stone structure.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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