The Greek Syntactical, Exegetical Analysis of Christ’s Atonement

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huckelberry
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Re: The Greek Syntactical, Exegetical Analysis of Christ’s Atonement

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Shulem wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:40 pm
huckelberry,

My explanation of the 3-step event was what I learned in Mormonism and is exactly what I was taught through the instructions given me over a long time. It really is a summing up; according to Mormonism, the Atonement did not occur on the cross but in the garden when Jesus bled from every pore to bring everything At-one-ment with him. That was the hour of Atonement according to LDS theology. The sacrifice was when Jesus was nailed to the cross and lifted up to die -- instead of an animal on Moses's altar to forgive sins we now have a human. The resurrection was the victory over death.

Mormons really don’t care too much about St Paul’s teachings and more specifically, Romans. Mormons get their doctrine of Atonement from all the scriptures and more importantly from the modern prophets who expound and explain doctrine.

And yes, to me, Jesus is nothing more than plastic. I don’t need him or want him but I don’t mind talking about him such as in this forum. I understand that Jesus is important to you. I can appreciate that.
Shulem, I can understand talking about atonement beliefs without participating in the believing part. I am aware of the peculiar Mormon theory about the garden. I thought this thread started looking at New Testament material not particularly Mormon additions. Still comparing could make sense which leads to question. Is there some way the three step view makes the atonement something clearer or more completely described?
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Re: The Greek Syntactical, Exegetical Analysis of Christ’s Atonement

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huckelberry wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:21 am
Shulem, I think your point here makes good sense. it is good self care. As self care it would advise a person starting the process of recifying the damage the mistake may have caused. Of course that is not always possible but forgiving would at least involve looking for better path forward.

Exactly, and I totally agree with your assessment of my point. We have to learn to forgive ourselves. Everyone has to learn to forgive themselves no matter what religious beliefs they hold. Forgiving oneself is an important part of the healing process. It will also help us to learn to forgive others. Forgiveness all around is a good thing. Call it Christian or call it Buddhism, it matters not, forgiveness is fundamental to happiness and wellbeing.
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Re: The Greek Syntactical, Exegetical Analysis of Christ’s Atonement

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huckelberry wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:12 pm
Philo, do your comments about new understanding of Paul which you tagged on the Quinn thread fit here?

I checked the book on amazon, reviews included helpful pieces.
https://www.amazon.com/New-Perspective- ... 0802845622
review from a Steven Propp, these pieces from Dunn, the review has more related quotes to clarify
quoted from review:
He argues, “Justification by faith alone needs to be reasserted as strongly as ever it was by Paul or by Augustine or by Luther… But its full scope needs to be reappreciated. For justification by faith speaks against all attempts to add ANYTHING to the gospel as essential to salvation or to require ANYTHING additional to the gospel as the basis for believers to eat and work together---not excluding particular definitions of apostolic succession, eucharistic exclusivity, denial of women’s ministry, assertions of biblical inerrancy, and such EXTRAS. Even the INSISTENCE on a particular formulation of the doctrine … can become one of the ‘works’ by which a self-perceived orthodoxy clouds the truth of the gospel.” (Pg. 96)

He notes, “The recognition that what Paul is attacking is a particular and restrictive understanding of the law provides the key to many of the tensions perceived in Paul’s writing on the law… the Jewish Christian (and Gentile) is able to recognize that the law has a continuing positive role, to be fulfilled in love of neighbor… the other priorities which emphasize national distinctiveness can be seen to be false priorities, and the ritual practices involved set on one side as matters of indifference…” (Pg. 140)
Yes, I thought about that. But the parallel with Quinn was really good in the Quinn thread. Dunn has done some really amazing work on Paul and it is fascinating to me that he is strongly condemned by some who love to pretend Paul belongs to them and their interpretation only. Amusing really.

Have you read Dunn? I have several of his books and am slowly working through them. His book "Unity and Diversity in the New Testament" is one of the most fascinating books I have ever read on the New Testament. In fact, that is one of the books I complained to apologists about. How come the Protestants are writing all the good stuff, and all we get in Mormonism is cotton candy/popcorn malnutrition?
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Re: The Greek Syntactical, Exegetical Analysis of Christ’s Atonement

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:27 am
the parallel with Quinn was really good in the Quinn thread. Dunn has done some really amazing work on Paul and it is fascinating to me that he is strongly condemned by some who love to pretend Paul belongs to them and their interpretation only. Amusing really.

Have you read Dunn? I have several of his books and am slowly working through them. His book "Unity and Diversity in the New Testament" is one of the most fascinating books I have ever read on the New Testament. In fact, that is one of the books I complained to apologists about. How come the Protestants are writing all the good stuff, and all we get in Mormonism is cotton candy/popcorn malnutrition?
Philo, I am glad for your recommendation. I am thinking I have read some about Dunn but I do not have any book of his. I gather he is somewhat similar in concern to N T Wright who I have invested some time in reading and like quite a bit . About Wright, he is not very good with shorter more popularly aimed books. For me those came across as ok but flat footed. His studies are quite long but full of good thoughts and observations. He has some desire to pry loose both Jesus and Paul from straightjackets that some docrinaire folks are determined to keep them in.
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Re: The Greek Syntactical, Exegetical Analysis of Christ’s Atonement

Post by Philo Sofee »

huckelberry wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:54 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:27 am
the parallel with Quinn was really good in the Quinn thread. Dunn has done some really amazing work on Paul and it is fascinating to me that he is strongly condemned by some who love to pretend Paul belongs to them and their interpretation only. Amusing really.

Have you read Dunn? I have several of his books and am slowly working through them. His book "Unity and Diversity in the New Testament" is one of the most fascinating books I have ever read on the New Testament. In fact, that is one of the books I complained to apologists about. How come the Protestants are writing all the good stuff, and all we get in Mormonism is cotton candy/popcorn malnutrition?
Philo, I am glad for your recommendation. I am thinking I have read some about Dunn but I do not have any book of his. I gather he is somewhat similar in concern to N T Wright who I have invested some time in reading and like quite a bit . About Wright, he is not very good with shorter more popularly aimed books. For me those came across as ok but flat footed. His studies are quite long but full of good thoughts and observations. He has some desire to pry loose both Jesus and Paul from straightjackets that some docrinaire folks are determined to keep them in.
Dunn is doing the exact same thing as Wright. Yes, he mentions Wright quite a bit and uses his materials. I suspect they are serious about putting some real thinking into what is real and what actually happened back then, instead of merely following party lines. In other words, they are shakers, movers, and if anything needs that these days, it is New Testament exegesis!
I'm going to say, as a start, I am thrilled out of my gourd that the first Dunn book I ever read was his "Unity and Diversity of the New Testament." That was simply marvelous! Start with that, and if you want, seriously, I shall pick it back up and re-read it, and we can explore it together here. I would enjoy that very much! It is so full of surprises, amazing ideas, very interesting connections, and blatant contradictions that he explores thoroughly. I LOVED it! I suspect you will also. Let me know.
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Re: The Greek Syntactical, Exegetical Analysis of Christ’s Atonement

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philo, amazon has that book but it is pricey. I will have to think about it. I may even plead I am looking at upcoming eye surgery which hopefull will get me back ,in time, to more reading which I have had some difficulty with recently.
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Re: The Greek Syntactical, Exegetical Analysis of Christ’s Atonement

Post by Philo Sofee »

huckelberry wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:07 am
philo, amazon has that book but it is pricey. I will have to think about it. I may even plead I am looking at upcoming eye surgery which hopefull will get me back ,in time, to more reading which I have had some difficulty with recently.
Oh I sincerely hope things go well with you. I am sincerely sorry to hear about your eyes. Man I try so hard not to do anything that will do anything to my eyes. I sincerely hope your eyes get better.

I wonder if there is a way you can get the book used? I never buy them new. Way too pricey... Anyway, keep me posted about your eyes...
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Re: The Greek Syntactical, Exegetical Analysis of Christ’s Atonement

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Philo, I need cataract surgery. Doc says it will be fine and i will see better than ever. I hope that is so.

About Amazon and the book, I do not understand but they list used as much more expensive than new. They are listing used over 600 dollars. Somebody must think highly of the book,or have some special addition.(or perhaps just mistake)
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Re: The Greek Syntactical, Exegetical Analysis of Christ’s Atonement

Post by Philo Sofee »

huckelberry wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:03 pm
Philo, I need cataract surgery. Doc says it will be fine and i will see better than ever. I hope that is so.

About Amazon and the book, I do not understand but they list used as much more expensive than new. They are listing used over 600 dollars. Somebody must think highly of the book,or have some special addition.(or perhaps just mistake)
That is absolutely ludicrous beyond words..... I wonder if the Mormon church would front the money..... :lol:
I shall keep lookin for you also.
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