The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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Philo Sofee
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Re: The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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Shulem
Moses was not a Christian!
I cannot possibly disagree with this very fine sentiment. Now then, no one has ever claimed this.
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Re: The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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Shulem
Jews today are not practicing the Law of Moses and are not disciples of Moses. Jews today practice another religion altogether which has become what it is today but it’s certainly not Moses’s religion which he personally set up and mandated. Actually, Moses’s religion has been extinct for a long time!
Whoa.....you hit that one right outta the park, the problem is its the wrong kind of game yer playin.... wow.....where to begin......ok, lets keep this truly simple. First, on the very simplest level there is no such thing as Jews (singular) as in one whole in solidarity on their religious views and practices. Second, the Ma'aseh Torah Jews today, right now, as I type most definitely continue on in the tradition and Law of Moses. Dude, you can't rightly just say whatever you wish and imagine it aligns with reality man!
Third, it NEVER was considered Moses's religion, but YHWH's. Just ask the Jews, they'll tell ya.
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Shulem
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Re: The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:54 pm
Shulem
Moses was not a Christian!
I cannot possibly disagree with this very fine sentiment. Now then, no one has ever claimed this.

First, you whole heartedly agree with the statement made above. Then, you say that no one has ever claimed it. Just to clarify, the Jews who opposed Jesus were absolutely adamant that Moses was not a Christian! The Jews rejected Christ and his Christian ways and stood behind Moses as their chief prophet and lawgiver.

Just so we're clear on that, fact.

Right?
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Shulem
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Re: The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:03 am
Second, the Ma'aseh Torah Jews today, right now, as I type most definitely continue on in the tradition and Law of Moses.

Show me the animals they are sacrificing on the altars in accordance to the strict laws of Moses as outlined in the Old Testament.

Jews today are NOT disciples of Moses. They are apostates and have forsaken the Law of Moses.

Animals MUST be sacrificed to Jehovah for the forgiveness of sins.

I know Moses's law and it is not kept or practiced by any Jews or any religious cult in our time.

Period.
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Shulem
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Re: The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:03 am
Just ask the Jews, they'll tell ya.

What Jews? They know nothing of Moses's law. The Jews pretend to live the law but fail.

Until they start killing animals and performing the rites established by Moses they will never convince me that they are Moses's disciples.

The Law of Moses has long been swept under the rug.

Right?
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Shulem
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Re: The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:03 am
Third, it NEVER was considered Moses's religion, but YHWH's.

Sacrifice animals NOW!

Saith the LORD.
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Re: The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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I AM in so much trouble now!

:D
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Re: The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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Shulem, I was truly puzzled by your fixation on fallowing Moses. I then remembered that Mormons have this weird theory that the gospel was given to Adam and has continued one true religion down to current Salt Lake City across the street from temple square.

I think there are variations on how people think of the developement of religion but it is only from Momons that I have heard that whole myth. I can only think that Moses was a partial step along the way. He learned from his father in law and probably from some Egyptians. His followers down the centuries filled out all those specifics in the law. (you realize of course that the Torah is about Moses not written by Moses) His followers, Jews, continue to interprat the legal collection down to this day.
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Re: The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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huckelberry wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:55 am
Shulem, I was truly puzzled by your fixation on fallowing Moses. I then remembered that Mormons have this weird theory that the gospel was given to Adam and has continued one true religion down to current Salt Lake City across the street from temple square.

Yes, yes, this is very much the backbone of my Mormon doctrine! The teachings of Joseph Smith are unlike any other Christian religion and it takes the Old Testament into very strange places. It’s appropriate to add them to the mix here in this thread because this is DiscussMormonism and you can’t talk about Moses and Christ without bringing Smith into the picture:

BOOK OF MOSES CHAPTER 1 wrote:1 The words of God, which he spake unto Moses at a time when Moses was caught up into an exceedingly high mountain,
BOOK OF MOSES CHAPTER 6 wrote:52 And he also said unto him: If thou wilt turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, and believe, and repent of all thy transgressions, and be baptized, even in water, in the name of mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth, which is Jesus Christ, the only name which shall be given under heaven, whereby salvation shall come unto the children of men, ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, asking all things in his name, and whatsoever ye shall ask, it shall be given you.

57 Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.

According to Smith, the name JESUS CHRIST was taught and Christianity preceded Christianity as did the ATONEMENT! According to Smith, Moses didn’t really practice animal sacrifice in the spirit in which it was taught in the Bible but was looking to Jesus all along. That is my point, when it comes to Mormonism.

My other point is that Mormonism is wrong and Moses was dead set on sacrificing animals as he was totally addicted to the practice and loved slaying animals and offering them up to Jehovah.

The whole of the Book of Moses makes it crystal clear that Enoch and Moses were Christians looking to Christ as their future sacrifice.
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Re: The Backstory to Jesus’s Atonement

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huckelberry wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:55 am
I think there are variations on how people think of the developement of religion but it is only from Momons that I have heard that whole myth. I can only think that Moses was a partial step along the way. He learned from his father in law and probably from some Egyptians. His followers down the centuries filled out all those specifics in the law. (you realize of course that the Torah is about Moses not written by Moses) His followers, Jews, continue to interprat the legal collection down to this day.

I think I will bow out and let Philo have his thread in his Hebrew way. All I can say is that I would not want to have to meet Moses. He would have stoned me and killed me. Death on the spot!

Lol

Seriously though, Moses was considered to be a tyrant and animal sacrifices was central to his teachings. I read the Old Testament very literally. I see and perceive what they did literally. Yes, there was symbolic teachings behind everything but so is the case today in all religions. The point is that people under Moses died who failed to live up to his standards and toleration was not a virtue under Moses’s law. Moses would execute anyone who stood in his way or defiled his law. He WAS an executioner and spilling blood and hacking up flesh was what he loved to do because that is what he did -- those are the facts.

How many bloody ways can you chop up an animal in order to please Jehovah? How many ways can you burn them on altars made specially for that purpose? And, when it comes to atonement, rubbing animal blood on the body was a special mark of the Priesthood of Aaron. The cult practices of animal sacrifice and ritualistic blood letting was horrific in my view. It was all about mind control and keeping the people in check and in order.
Philo Sofee wrote:This is a continuation of “important Passover allusions” such as - וַיִּקַּ֤ח משֶׁה֙ אֶת־הַדָּ֔ם וַיִּזְרֹ֖ק עַל־הָעָ֑ם וַיֹּ֗אמֶר הִנֵּ֤ה דַם־הַבְּרִית֙ אֲשֶׁ֨ר כָּרַ֤ת יְהֹוָה֙ עִמָּכֶ֔ם עַ֥ל כָּל־הַדְּבָרִ֖ים הָאֵֽלֶּה - And Moses took the blood and sprinkled [it] on the people, and he said, "Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has formed with you concerning these words." (Exo. 24:8).

Philo, you can have your thread back. I won’t interject again unless it’s specific to the OP, although my comments are I think entirely in keeping with the OP. Just not what you might not want to discuss in your way.

Philo Sofee wrote:Note however, this is the blood of the young bull and the atonement was for the spreading of blood all over the temple door, posts, etc., to cleanse the building of sin

Indeed, blood everywhere. It was all about the blood and killing of animals for forgiveness of sins.
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