600 Years in The Book of Mormon

[consiglieri]

Thanks for pointing this thread out to me!

I recall reading some research by Jack Welch many years ago trying to trace Book of Mormon Jacob’s lineage up to Mosiah.

As I recall, the generations were so skewed Welch had to create at least one missing record keeper so as to make the math come out right.

[Shulem]

Thanks for pointing this thread out to me!

I recall reading some research by Jack Welch many years ago trying to trace Book of Mormon Jacob’s lineage up to Mosiah.

As I recall, the generations were so skewed Welch had to create at least one missing record keeper so as to make the math come out right.

And thank you, consiglieri, for taking a peek and providing that apologetic reference. I’m sure that Welch’s reasonings are complicated and riddled with cross referencing and loads of supposed data that will back up whatever explanation he is attempting to express. Apologists have a habit of burying their explanations and excuses under a mountain of dirt and it can be difficult to dig through.

So, I’d like to introduce an apologist who is simple and gets to the point -- Gramps. Apparently, someone wrote him and asked for an honest explanation of why the generation of Jacob & Enos was so long and how to account for an estimated 179 years. Gramps responds and say’s, “Indeed, 179 years seems to be a little long for one generation to pass. However, there are some explanations which may help.”

So, what did Gramps say about this generation that seems “a little long”? I’ll bet his explanation is much simpler than what Welch offers which is undoubtedly loaded with distractions and cross-references that supposedly back up the assertions he is proposing.

One explanation is that, in Jacob 7:27, Jacob “said unto my son Enos: take these plates”. This establishes that Jacob had a son named Enos to whom he gave the plates before dying.

Right, Jacob had a son named Enos. We get that! Gramps acknowledges that Enos extolled his father, but because he doesn’t specifically mention the name “Jacob”, it’s therefore possible that Enos’s father may be someone other than the Jacob of the Book of Jacob, and thus provides his first possible explanation:

In Enos 1:1, Enos writes “it came to pass that I, Enos, knowing my father that he was a just man – for he taught me in his language, and also in the nurture and admonition of the Lord – and blessed the name of my God for it”. Here, Enos claims his father was a righteous man, but he does not say the name of his father or that his father was Jacob. In fact, the name “Jacob” does not appear anywhere in the Book of Enos.

Thus, the apologist is willing to deny that Jacob (brother of Nephi) in the Book of Jacob is the actual Father of Enos even though the very last verse prior to Enos introducing himself is Jacob saying “goodbye” (in French).

The explanation is, there was an Enos the elder and an Enos the younger, similar to Alma the elder and Alma the younger. Jacob gave the plates to Enos the elder, who was Enos’ father referred to in Enos 1:1, and then Enos the elder gave the plates to Enos the younger, who wrote the Book of Enos. Who knows – maybe there were several generations in there!

So now we have an Enos the elder to go along with Enos the younger. This is pure invention on the apologist’s part! Gramps suggests that Jacob gave the plates to his son Enos who then gave the plates to his son Enos – and presto, we have an extra man to help fill in the years. Then, Gramps actually seems to chuckle and suggests that there may be several Enos’s, who can say?

Is Gramps reading from the same Book of Mormon as I? His explanation is off the rails! Nonetheless, he continues with yet providing another possible explanation (if you can believe it):

Another explanation is simply that Jacob and Enos lived a long time. Jacob was not born until about ten years after Lehi left Jerusalem. (See 1 Nephi 1:18.) This would leave us with 169 years to account for. If Jacob then had Enos when he was 70 years old (not as uncommon of a situation as one would think – I had a man in my last ward have children at this age after marrying a much younger wife), taught Enos until Enos was 20 and Jacob died at 90, then Enos lived to be 100, it is certainly plausible that this time period lasted one generation.

Sigh.

Now, Gramps somewhat relents but also exaggerates and says:

The bottom line is we don’t know for certain how to account for the 179 year gap, but there are several explanations which could have occurred.

Several Explanations? It seems to me that Gramps provided just two explanations and that is NOT several. There is however, a third explanation: Joseph Smith lied and made it all up.

I'll go with the third explanation.

[Lem]

Lol. Nice thread. Doesn't the removal of the 'it came to pass' reduce the word count by 5% or something?

Lem, I was just thinking about you over the past few hours! I was even thinking about sending you a PM to tell you about this thread. I’ve been working on a killer post that I consider very enlightening and very revealing in proving Smith was up to no good in copying the Bible into his Book of Mormon narrative. This thread is intended to move forward in a special way where I will turn the Book of Mormon on its head! I will do so in a polite and kind manner. I don’t want to offend anyone in the Celestial Board. Everyone is welcome here.

Lem, it’s true that the “it came to pass” is wasting a lot of space. I’ll be talking about that more a little later.

Lem, the next post is dedicated to you and I hope you enjoy the implications in which I reveal an amazing new thing! I hope you like it. I’m ready to copy and paste it and it’s killer!

I was thinking of you too, so I looked up your threads! I'm glad we connected.

And thank you so much for the dedication. That was a great post. I'm really enjoying your threads, and looking forward to reading and participating in many many more.

[Alphus and Omegus]

The absence of Hebrew months is one thing but the absence of Sabbath day observance in the course of traveling is also glaringly obvious throughout this period when Sabbath day observance was said to have been strictly observed:

[snip]

CONCLUSION:

The stories above fail to mention required Sabbath observance which must take place every seven days. This omission is less forgivable than not mentioning a single Hebrew month throughout the entire novel. I’m afraid that leaving out Sabbath observance is a hole in the script.

I think your point about Jewish holidays and months is much stronger than the Sabbath one, if I may say. The Bible has multiple discussions of events transpiring in some relation to months or festivals. But because Smith had no real knowledge of these ways of reckoning time, he wasn't able to pepper them into his text as he dictated it.

Sabbath observance during a time of emergency might have had special dispensation to be ignored, or perhaps the characters could have rested on the day and just not noted it. I think your point has some merit to it, but it's not as strong as the months and festivals discussion.

[Shulem]

I think your point about Jewish holidays and months is much stronger than the Sabbath one, if I may say. The Bible has multiple discussions of events transpiring in some relation to months or festivals. But because Smith had no real knowledge of these ways of reckoning time, he wasn't able to pepper them into his text as he dictated it.

Sabbath observance during a time of emergency might have had special dispensation to be ignored, or perhaps the characters could have rested on the day and just not noted it. I think your point has some merit to it, but it's not as strong as the months and festivals discussion.

Thank you, Alphus and Omegus, for chiming in and making a valid point and a reasonable observation, I do appreciate that! Perhaps I should provide a little more explanation on my part and explore further. What really stuck out in my mind is that Alma fled from Noah’s army for an eight day journey through the wilderness with nothing at all to say about those eight days other than the Lord did strengthen them that the army couldn’t overtake them in spite of the fact that Alma’s people were laden down with provisions to include cattle and grain and everything they could carry -- in haste. It seems rather remarkable that an army with teams of infantry possessing every skill and means at their disposal to overtake and capture an enemy were unable to overtake Alma’s fleeing people. It all seems quite remarkable! But Smith makes it out to be a miracle.

Now, what about the Sabbath that occurred during that eight-day run from the army of the Lamanites? I’m going to suggest that they didn’t begin their flight on the Sabbath out of respect for the holy day -- so I presume that the first day of flight was not on the Sabbath. Interesting to note that if they had fled on the Sabbath then the last day (eighth) would have also been the Sabbath and considering there was no mention of any Sabbath observance it seems reasonable to assume that simply wasn’t the case.

Again, I find it odd that one of the Ten Commandments that tells us what we must do rather than what we can’t do is not mentioned during Alma’s flight; an intense period of fright coupled with faith that the Lord is hindering the enemy from pursuing and overtaking and all this without any reference to observing the commandment to take rest on the seventh day.

I chalk it all up as an oversight on Smith’s part while telling the story. He just didn’t think about it and for me, that’s a red flag.

[Shulem]

The 179 year reference in which Smith dictated to Oliver Cowdery is nearly impossible by any standard. It was a fatal mathematical mistake on Smith’s part and the error just can’t be rationalized. Jacob was born in the wilderness sometime between 600-592 BC. This means that Jacob was born some 171 years from the time Enos made his statement about being old and about to die. That’s a huge generation for just one father and son! How can the Book of Mormon account for this 171 year time span? Once theoretical scenario would be that Enos would have to have been born when Jacob was 91 years old which would make Enos 80 years old when he was about to die!

But wait! Is it possible that Smith was copying the age of biblical Jacob who is calculated in the genealogy (by working deduction) to have been 91 years old when he begat Joseph who was later sold into Egypt? Was Smith just copying the Bible or is just bad math on his part? The age of 91 was something Smith would have known by reading the Adam Clarke Commentary and perhaps he calculated that into his story when dictating his preconceived timeline:

‘Jacob was one hundred and thirty when he went down (with sixty-six persons) into Egypt. Joseph had then been governor ten years; and when made governor was thirty; therefore Jacob could not be more than ninety at the birth of Joseph.’ (Mr. Skinner)

91 JOSEPH born of Rachel *

I stated in the OP that “I propose that it was Joseph Smith’s original preconceived and calculated plan to dictate stories within a pre-Christ era (BC) of the Book of Mormon using a 600-year timeline based on the starting point of Lehi leaving Jerusalem to the birth of Christ. This idea was preconceived before the translation process began whereby Smith’s ideas for the book would be manifest during the dictation (translation) process.”

We learn in Jacob 1:1 “that fifty and five years had passed away from the time that Lehi left Jerusalem” and this is when Nephi passes the plates on to Jacob who was at least 47 years old at that time. Later, we learn that Jacob began to be old and had determined to pass the plates down to his son, Enos. This is the precise point (birth of Enos) in which Joseph Smith needed to have a number in order to keep track of his chronology for the 600 years and advance to the next generation but in doing so he had to have a number in which to determine what date would fall on the upcoming timeline. The generation of Jacob and his son Enos would have to be calculated in order to keep the chronology straight in the story. So, Smith needed to determine how old Jacob was when Enos was born in order to keep things straight. The Bible is not clear on the point that Jacob was 91 when he bore Joseph. You have to do a little calculating to get that number. For your convenience, I will gladly explain this process in my own words:

“Jacob at age 91 begat Joseph (Gen 30:24,25) This birth date corresponds to the fact that Jacob was 130 and Joseph was 39 when Jacob stood before Pharaoh and blessed him. Although the account seems to suggest that Joseph was born after Jacob’s 14 years of service to Laban for his two daughters (Gen 30:25) by which he continued another 6 years labor for his cattle (31:38,41) for a total of 20 years of hired service before returning to Canaan. This simply is not possible because 7 years would not be enough time to bear 11 sons (by 4 wives) as chronicled in chapters 29 and 30. Therefore, Jacob’s statement in 30:25 is calling attention to Laban that he fulfilled his original 14-year commitment to Jacob, although he must have remained several more years of his own accord by which other sons including Joseph the 11th was born. Jacob's declaration of 20 years of hired service was a reminder to Laban that he fulfilled his term of agreed service.”

And so, what better way for Smith to make his Book of Mormon Jacob appear biblical by plugging in the same age in which biblical Jacob begat Joseph? It all seems to fit because everyone accepts the story that biblical Jacob lived a long life whereby he died in Egypt at age 147 (Gen 47:28). So, Smith plugged in Adam Clarke’s reference of Jacob being 91 years old when he begat Joseph into the Book of Mormon Jacob who would bear Enos at age 91, and then 80 years later, Enos could say “I began to be old” and state that 179 years had passed since Lehi left Jerusalem.

It all fits beautifully and I believe this is very likely how Smith determined to move forward with his chronology.

The other alternative is to simply believe he was really translating and that God gave him those incredible numbers through revelation.

[Shulem]

Enos is portrayed fluidly in the Book of Mormon to immediately follow in the footsteps of his father Jacob. One need only look at the Printer’s Manuscript of the Book of Mormon and it’s abundantly clear that Enos is Jacob’s son who assumed the plates and the responsibility of carrying on with the family line. There was no other father between Jacob & Enos -- they were father and son. That is how the genealogy is expressed and continues on with Enos’s son, Jarom.

In spite of this, Book of Mormon defenders invented the theory that there may have been an Enos Sr. that we are not told about in the record or some other man who fathered Enos.

Wikipedia “Enos (Book of Mormon prophet”)

Enos (/ˈiːnəs/;[1] Hebrew: אֱנוֹשׁ‎) is a figure in the Book of Mormon who is a son or grandson[2] of Jacob, a Nephite prophet and author of the Book of Enos. According to the Book of Mormon, Enos lived sometime in the 6th century BC.

According to the Book of Mormon narrative, Enos was third in the series of record keepers who maintained the record of the Nephites, a set of metal plates containing the spiritual and secular history of the Nephites. Enos was given charge of the record by his father, Jacob, son of Lehi and brother of Nephi. Both Nephi and Jacob had kept the record previously, recording First and Second Nephi and the Book of Jacob, respectively. Enos's contribution to the record, the Book of Enos, consists of a single chapter, told in the first person, describing his own conversion and subsequent ministry.

Indeed, this is a real problem with Book of Mormon chronology and I do believe I’ve solved the mystery, right here, live, on Discuss Mormonism!

Buckle up, it’s going to get bumpy!

[Shulem]

Apostles and prophets and Church leaders have ever taught that Enos was the son of Jacob and the grandson of Lehi. This has ever been the standard and this testimony has been given over the pulpit numerous times by men who claimed to speak under the influence and power of the Holy Spirit.

Here are a few of those testimonies:

Some two thousand years later, Enos, the son of Jacob, testified to this same truth.

Another convincing evidence of the power of prayer in helping one to maintain spirituality is the account given by Enos, Jacob’s son, who wrote:

Enos, son of Jacob, was another who esteemed his father:

We have another good example in Enos, the son of Jacob, for he also came from a good home

Lehi taught his son Jacob about the sacrifice of the Messiah

<snip>

Enos said he knew his father was a just man

<snip>

In summary, the Book of Mormon, which is the most correct book on earth, demonstrates that the major responsibility for teaching our sons

The history in the Book of Mormon is incidental. There are prophets and dissenters and genealogies to move them from one generation to another, but the central purpose is not historical.

As the saga of the message is traced, one writer (Alma) requires 160 pages to cover thirty-eight years, while seven others (Enos, Jarom, Omni, Amaron, Chemish, Abinadom, Amaleki) together use only 6 pages to cover over three hundred years. In either case, the testament survives.

Each of the major writers of the Book of Mormon testified that he wrote for future generations.

<snip>

Enos and Jarom both indicated that they too were writing not for their own peoples but for future generations

The Book of Mormon prophet Enos, Lehi’s grandson, wrote of a singular experience that happened earlier in his life.

The Book of Mormon prophet Jacob is an example of such righteousness. His son Enos wrote of the impact of his father’s teachings:

The Church is stuck with the claims made in the Book of Mormon and the testimonies given by the prophets and apostles in General Conference.

Genealogy:

And I, Jacob, saw that I must soon go down to my grave . . . . I bid farewell, hoping that many of my brethren may read my words. Brethren, adieu

Behold, it came to pass that I, Enos, knowing my father that he was a just man—for he taught me in his language . . . . And I soon go to the place of my rest

Now behold, I, Jarom, write a few words according to the commandment of my father, Enos, that our genealogy may be kept. . . . And I deliver these plates into the hands of my son Omni

Behold, it came to pass that I, Omni, being commanded by my father, Jarom . . . . I had kept these plates according to the commandments of my fathers; and I conferred them upon my son Amaron

And now I, Amaron, write the things whatsoever I write, which are few, in the book of my father . . . . that I did deliver the plates unto my brother Chemish

Now I, Chemish, write what few things I write, in the same book with my brother; for behold, I saw the last which he wrote

Behold, I, Abinadom, am the son of Chemish

Behold, I am Amaleki, the son of Abinadom

[Shulem]

There is something else I would like to add to the concept of Smith plugging in the 91-year age of biblical Jacob the father of Joseph into the Book of Mormon Jacob who fathered Enos when he was 91 years old. Although it is not said, but from Smith’s mind, Book of Mormon Jacob could have lived on to the ripe old age of 147, the same as biblical Jacob, and this provides plenty of time for a mature Enos to get the plates before he died. Recall that Jacob said, “I must soon go down to my grave; wherefore, I said unto my son Enos: Take these plates”, thus Jacob was old, very old, just like the Jacob of the Bible, and it was time to pass the baton to the next generation being Enos who mentions in his book how he highly esteemed his father. Enos recalls his personal story of how he went hunting in the forest and prayed all day and obtained a testimony of the gospel. He finishes his brief account to let us know he was getting old and “must soon go down to my grave” and this is the point in which he reveals that 179 years had passed since Lehi left Jerusalem which is the very number Joseph Smith was particular about in keeping count of the years while dictating his novel. This is the exact point when Enos was 80 years old but we do not learn about his death, only that the plates were passed on to his son, Jarom.

The point of this post is to make it absolutely clear that this long generation between Jacob & Enos of 179 years serves to show that Joseph Smith considered his Book of Mormon Jacob to be on par with that of the biblical Jacob when it came to a long lifespan. This was also Smith’s personal way of granting credibility to his fictional character by endowing him with the magical old age of 147! This certainly gives us room to pause and to consider the possibilities of what Smith was cooking in the fictional book contained within his mind.

[Shulem]

Buckle up, it’s going to get bumpy!

Are you ready for a fun ride through the Book of Mormon 600-year timeline? I’m going to take you on a joyride and I want YOU to enjoy it. I provide the following string of numbers as the base reference which serves to show how the years were counted in consecutive order. Smith was absolutely careful to keep track of the numbers in his stories and this timeline is the very framework in which he dictated his story -- step by step until he reached the 600-year mark. Yes, Smith was keeping count, you can be assured of that! There are twelve numbers in the base timeline:

8
30
40
179
200
238
276
320
476
509
595
600


The following references cite the actual dates listed in the above timeline which was the basic framework in which Smith worked to build his story:

1. 1 Nephi 17:4 And we did sojourn for the space of many years, yea, even eight years in the wilderness.

2. 2 Nephi 5: 28 And thirty years had passed away from the time we left Jerusalem.

3. 2 Nephi 5:34 And it sufficeth me to say that forty years had passed away, and we had already had wars and contentions with our brethren.

4. Enos 1:25 And it came to pass that I began to be old, and an hundred and seventy and nine years had passed away from the time that our father Lehi left Jerusalem.

5. Jarom 1:5 And now, behold, two hundred years had passed away, and the people of Nephi had waxed strong in the land.

6. Jarom 1:13 And it came to pass that two hundred and thirty and eight years had passed away

7. Omni 1:3 And it came to pass that two hundred and seventy and six years had passed away, and we had many seasons of peace; and we had many seasons of serious war and bloodshed. Yea, and in fine, two hundred and eighty and two years had passed away

8. Omni 1:5 Behold, it came to pass that three hundred and twenty years had passed away, and the more wicked part of the Nephites were destroyed.

9. Mosiah 6:4 And Mosiah began to reign in his father’s stead. And he began to reign in the thirtieth year of his age, making in the whole, about four hundred and seventy-six years from the time that Lehi left Jerusalem.

10. Mosiah 29:46 And it came to pass that Mosiah died also, in the thirty and third year of his reign, being sixty and three years old; making in the whole, five hundred and nine years from the time Lehi left Jerusalem.

11. Helaman 14:2 And behold, he said unto them: Behold, I give unto you a sign; for five years more cometh, and behold, then cometh the Son of God to redeem all those who shall believe on his name.

12. 3 Nephi 1: 1 Now it came to pass that the ninety and first year had passed away and it was six hundred years from the time that Lehi left Jerusalem; and it was in the year that Lachoneus was the chief judge and the governor over the land.