Fictitious Priesthood Ordination Ages of the Patriarchs NOW Exposed!

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Shulem
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365 vs 430

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Let us now turn to the *OFFICIAL* (THE ONE AND ONLY) 1835 DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS and imagine living in Kirtland and being taught under the shadow of the living prophet, Joseph Smith.

1) Please click and witness:
Title Page

2) Please click and acknowledge:
Preface

3) Please click and read the first verse:
Page 21 verse 40
And Enoch walked with God, after he begat Methuseleh 300 years: making him 365 years old when he was translated.

4) Please click and read the last verse:
Page 85 verse 24
Enoch . . . and he walked with God 365 years: making him 430 years old when he was translated.

How old was Enoch when he was translated”?

I call Joseph Smith to the stand to explain himself and answer the question!
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Re: Fictitious Priesthood Ordination Ages of the Patriarchs NOW Exposed!

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How old were these guys during the Babylonian Floods?
How would Methuselah fair against Enkidu in one of those Joseph Smith arm wrestles?
What if Methuselah and Enkidu were pitted against the Harpies from the old MAD board?




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Gilgamesh and Enkidu enjoy refreshing Postum!
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Re: 365 vs 430

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Shulem wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:09 am
How old was Enoch when he was translated”?

The 365 is the biblical record but the 430 is Joseph Smith’s own construct in which he inadvertently adds 65 years to Enoch’s life, which coincidentally, 65 was Enoch’s age when he begat Methuselah and when “Adam blessed him” (D&C 107:48). In other words, Smith equated Enoch’s Zionist ministry as 365 years or from the time he turned 65 to his translation, hence “all the days of Zion, in the days of Enoch, were three hundred and sixty-five years” (Moses 7:68). This is when Smith mistakenly adds the 65 years Enoch lived prior to Zion and his son’s birth to Enoch’s entire lifespan thus totaling 430 years. Smith should have left the 365 figure in tact because that was the year Enoch was translated!

Further examination of the FAITH & THEOLOGY of the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants supports the biblical accounting for 365 years.

Page 21 verse 41
Agreeably to this account, Adam died in the 930th year of the world, Enoch was translated in the 987th

The verse above in the 1835 D&C agrees with the bible that Adam lived 930 years: Year 0 was his beginning and year “930th” was his death. Note that Enoch was “translated” in the “987th” year. Let’s check the bible and see if it agrees:

Year 0 Adam begins to reign as lord of the earth (Gen3:23)
Year 130 Adam age 130 begat Seth (Gen 5:3)
Year 235 Seth age 105 begat Enos (Gen 5:6)
Year 325 Enos age 90 begat Cainan (Gen 5:9)
Year 395 Cainan age 70 begat Mahalaleel
Year 460 Mahalaleel age 65 begat Jared (Gen 5:15)
Year 622 Jared age 162 begat Enoch (Gen 5:18)
Year 687 Enoch age 65 begat Methuselah (Gen 5:21)
Year 874 Methuselah age 187 begat Lamech (Gen 5:25)
Year 930 Adam dies
Year 987 Enoch translated age 365 according to the bible
Year 1052 Enoch translated age 430 according to Joseph Smith

In conclusion, the 430 figure recorded in Moses 8:1 & D&C 107:49 are bogus!
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Re: 365 vs 430

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Shulem wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:55 pm
Year 987 Enoch translated age 365 according to the bible
Year 1052 Enoch translated age 430 according to Joseph Smith

In conclusion, the 430 figure recorded in Moses 8:1 & D&C 107:49 are bogus!

I’ll remind anyone who objects to my conclusion and questions my interpretation of scripture or biblical chronology as it has come down through centuries of religious faith and belief, I am not without a witness; whereby, I introduce the commentary of an ancient historian, JOSEPHUS. We only need refer to the Jewish Antiquities and understand exactly how the chronology of Enoch was understood:

Josephus wrote:This Malaleel having lived eight hundred ninety five years, died; leaving his son Jared; whom he begat when he was at his hundred and sixty fifth year. He lived nine hundred and sixty two years: and then his son Enoch succeeded him: who was born when his father was one hundred and sixty two years old. Now he, when he had lived three hundred and sixty five years, departed and went to God. Whence it is that they have not written down his death.

That is exactly how the the prophets of Israel understood chronology when referencing the ministry of Enoch and that is exactly how it is recorded in the bible, notwithstanding the errors of Joseph Smith’s faulty revelations.
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Re: Enos

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Shulem wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:47 pm
Enos received two MARKERS to indicate ordination age. The following excerpt is taken from the original manuscript taken from the bottom of the page and with that we might expect to have similar results as with Seth’s MARKERS:

Old Testament Revision 1 wrote: Enos and the residue of the People of God came out from the Land which was called Shulon & dwelt in a Land of Promise which he called after his own son whom <whom he begat when he was 90 years old> he had named Cainan & Enos lived after he begat his son Cainan 815 850 years & begat many sons & daughters & all the days of Enos were 905 940 years & he died

(Please note that the insertion “<whom he begat when he was 90 years old>” was penned in after the fact by what seems the same handwriting as the MARKERS and other corrections but the Joseph Smith Papers make no mention of this in the transcription or in the commentary; however the additional phrase is included at the beginning of Moses 6:17.)

“Old Testament Revision 1”

Now apply the formula to determine the age of ordination:

850 - 815 = 35
940 - 905 = 35

Compare that to what is actually given in D&C 107:

verse 44 wrote:Enos was ordained at the age of one hundred and thirty-four years and four months, by the hand of Adam.

“Houston, we have a problem.”

:o

Let’s address the discrepancy or what seems like numbers going amuck with the year in which Enos was ordained and what follows is little rhyme or reason because there seems to be confusion when it comes to the ages in which future patriarchs were ordained. Why wasn’t the 35 year MARKER adopted into the revelation that rolled off the press in D&C 107? Why was it 134 years instead of 35 which was the original intent? What follows is Enos (the 3rd patriarch in succession) being slated to become ordained at the young age of 35 ends up being cancelled by Smith himself and put off until he reaches age 134, a very long delay of 99 years! When Enos was born, his father Seth had held the patriarchal priesthood for 36 years (105 – 69 = 36) and it’s reasonable to think he would be anxious to see his son ordained earlier rather than later. So, the line of patriarchal priesthood was on hold and Seth too, would have to wait for his son’s ordination. BUT ordination to *what*? That is the key!

A close look at D&C 107 and the ordinations of the patriarchs leads me to believe that Smith was developing his understanding and theology of priesthood organization and moreover the type of ordination referenced by the patriarchs under the hand of Adam. Smith’s narrative makes it clear that revelation is an essential ingredient to “ordain evangelical ministers” (107:39) and that “the order of this priesthood was confirmed to be handed down from father to son, and rightly belongs to the literal descendants of the chosen seed.” (107:40) It now becomes clear that we are talking about an *office* within the priesthood itself or the office of Patriarchal Priesthood which is evangelical priesthood of the patriarchal order. Therefore, Smith developed the concept that this priesthood in which was given to Seth, Enos, and so on, is reference to the office of *Patriarch* within the priesthood which is after the Order of the Son of God. So, the ordinations given are not referencing when they were first ordained to the priesthood per se, but when they were ordained to the office of Patriarch. Hence, “This order was instituted in the days of Adam, and came down by lineage in the following manner.” (107:41)

It stands to reason that Smith opted to not use the young age of 35 in this particular instance and in these circumstances but require Enos to faithfully wait it out until such time as he was ready to be called to head the line of succession through the patriarchal order and become the 3rd grand Patriarch of the family of Adam. Similarly, recall that “God called upon Cainan in the wilderness in the fortieth year of his age; and he met Adam”, but it wasn’t until 47 years later that he was actually ordained, meaning ordained to the office of Patriarch within the priesthood he undoubtedly already held. So, when Cainain was 87 he too received all the rights and privileges of the Evangelical Order under the direct ministry of Adam.

Finally, what about the anomaly of Enos receiving his patriarchal ordination not just when he was 134 years old but 134 years “AND FOUR MONTHS”? This is the only time month’s are ever mentioned with regard to the age of the patriarchs. Why is four months even mentioned? What difference does it make? This break with convention seems to suggest that Smith’s mind was wondering about and attempting to create a different backdrop for his story other than what he originally planned. Perhaps Smith called to mind what Jesus said: “There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest.” By the time Enos was ordained the field was white already to harvest and he became an evangelical head!
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Re: Mahalaleel

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Smith’s doctrine pertaining to the patriarchal order as it came down by lineage was that “the order of this priesthood was confirmed to be handed down from father to son, and rightly belongs to the literal descendants of the chosen seed.” The next person in line to become a Patriarch is Mahalaleel who was number 5 in the line of succession and this is where the real problem begins or ends, depending on how you look at it. The manuscript grants a MARKER (top of page) of “50” years for Mahalaleel whereby supposedly he would be ordained at the age of 115 and thus become the 5th grand Patriarch in the line of succession:

Old Testament Revision 1 wrote: Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years 115 and begat Jared, and Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared 830 years and begat sons and daughters, and all the days of Mahalaleel were 895 945 and he died

115 - 65 = 50
945 - 895 = 50

Everything now seems set whereby Mahalaleel is next in line but D&C 107 doesn’t go along with that and makes a colossal break with the MARKER wherein Mahalaleel would be ordained at a much later date.

D&C 107:46 wrote:Mahalaleel was four hundred and ninety-six years and seven days old when he was ordained by the hand of Adam, who also blessed him.

Now we learn that Mahalaleel, next in the line of succession was ordained at the age of 496 years “and 7 days”! The 50 year MARKER has been blown up and a scenario that makes little sense begins to take shape. How so? Well, according to the ordination dates given in the D&C, Mahalaleel’s son, grandson, and great-grandson received their ordinations BEFORE Mahalaleel received his own ordination! The line of patriarchal priesthood succession makes little sense. The grandson (Methuselah) was ordained BEFORE the grandfather?

Houston, we have a colossal problem at the hand of Adam!
Last edited by Shulem on Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 365 vs 430

Post by Philo Sofee »

Shulem wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:53 pm
Shulem wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:55 pm
Year 987 Enoch translated age 365 according to the bible
Year 1052 Enoch translated age 430 according to Joseph Smith

In conclusion, the 430 figure recorded in Moses 8:1 & D&C 107:49 are bogus!

I’ll remind anyone who objects to my conclusion and questions my interpretation of scripture or biblical chronology as it has come down through centuries of religious faith and belief, I am not without a witness; whereby, I introduce the commentary of an ancient historian, JOSEPHUS. We only need refer to the Jewish Antiquities and understand exactly how the chronology of Enoch was understood:

Josephus wrote:This Malaleel having lived eight hundred ninety five years, died; leaving his son Jared; whom he begat when he was at his hundred and sixty fifth year. He lived nine hundred and sixty two years: and then his son Enoch succeeded him: who was born when his father was one hundred and sixty two years old. Now he, when he had lived three hundred and sixty five years, departed and went to God. Whence it is that they have not written down his death.

That is exactly how the the prophets of Israel understood chronology when referencing the ministry of Enoch and that is exactly how it is recorded in the bible, notwithstanding the errors of Joseph Smith’s faulty revelations.
A nifty little piece of detective work Shulem!
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Enoch

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Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:52 pm
A nifty little piece of detective work Shulem!

There is a lot to it, Philo, and more than meets the ordinary eye. You need a smart detective, ME! :D

Knowing that the patriarchal order doesn’t necessarily follow an orderly line of succession, let’s now consider who became the next Patriarch according to Joseph Smith’s revealed chronology given in D&C 107. You’d think that Mahalaleel’s son Jared would be next in line but he was not the next to be ordained. That honor would fall to Mahalaleel’s grandson, Enoch. Jared would have to wait 13 years after his son’s ordination because Enoch got first dibs! Not only would Enoch rise to patriarchal rank before his own father AND grandfather but do it faster than anyone to date and at a rate of speed eight times that of his father!

The Book of Moses manuscript does not have a MARKER dating Enoch’s ordination but D&C 107:48 states that “Enoch was twenty-five years old when he was ordained under the hand of Adam; and he was sixty-five and Adam blessed him”; this occurred the same year in which Enoch begat Methuselah. Meanwhile, where was Mahalaleel during all this? The fact is, according to Smith’s dating, Mahalaleel wouldn’t receive his patriarchal ordination for another 204 years! What was Mahalaleel’s problem? Was he wayward? Was he Canain’s prodigal son who spent his days doing less righteous things, perhaps indulging in women and wine? It doesn’t make sense. Joseph Smith’s ordination timeline makes no sense at all. According to Smith's calculations, it appears that something was dreadfully wrong with Mahalaleel who may have had a serious worthiness issue.
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Jared

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The Book of Moses manuscript does not have a MARKER for Jared who was ordained to the patriarchal priesthood under the hand of Adam. We learn in D&C 107:47 that “Jared was two hundred years old when he was ordained under the hand of Adam” and interestingly enough we now have a large round number in which to consider. How or what may have influenced Joseph Smith to allocate 200 years for Jared’s ordination age? Perhaps we only need to turn to the Book of Mormon for a possible clue in how Smith may have come up with a number for the name. I’m not referring to Jared in the book of Ether but JARom in the book of JARom. The reference in question commemorates an important milestone in Nephite history since the time Lehi left Jerusalem. Although it can’t be proven with certainly that the following verse influenced Smith it likewise cannot be proven that it did not.

;)
JARom 1:5 wrote:And now, behold, two hundred years had passed away, and the people of Nephi had waxed strong in the land. They observed to keep the law of Moses and the sabbath day holy unto the Lord. And they profaned not; neither did they blaspheme. And the laws of the land were exceedingly strict.

Or in other words, two hundred years had passed away, and Jared was finally ordained . . .
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Re: Fictitious Priesthood Ordination Ages of the Patriarchs NOW Exposed!

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What year did this line of Patriarchs depart from Adam-ondi-Ahman in Missouri and arrive in the Middle East?
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