Welcome question for Shirts: Where is the stone box?

[_Baurak Ale]

Shirts logic is correct he made the point I was about to before I did, and the retort made me realise something I am just starting to see. I would've assumed that if the Book of Mormon stone casket itself did materialize. (that said I have no idea in the universe how that could be definitively authenticated to the point where its not even disputed) how would you go about doing that I am not sure? If I had the stone box and the gold plates and showed them to you (poligamy Porter) I originally would've thought that it doesn't necessarily prove anything. ie, how do you know the gold plates though they may be of genuine antiquity and you even may be able to verify its the Book of Mormon so what? The dilemna still remains you can't prove it has devine origins that supernatural resurrected glorious personages from heaven were involved in its transimition to Joseph or safe guarding it. Proving the heavenly devinity of the plates is impossible, I can't really see how one could do that even if in possession of the items? No one to this day has proved the Bible true and everyone has packed up and gone home and accepts it, the debate is over, no the debate continues.

The thing I think one can easily not realise is the fact that there is very often two types of Mormon testimonies, those who read lds literature and see unfailing logic that intends to prove infallably its all true, with extrodinary reasoning. For many lds that is what there testimony is based on hardly a very good foundation in my opinion. A excellent example of the Thomas Stuart Fergusion case. And those who know by the revelatory power of the Holy Ghost - by devine power. I don't think its right in this case to ridicule Poligamy Porter because the only thing that will allow him to believe the Church is true is if science confirms it. I have been surprised to find many lds have strong testimonies of the church based on it being so logical and apparently having all the answers and to those vast majority of members who only read official lds literature, they seem to believe almost ubiquitously that there is nothing that could challenge what they understand. Its viewed as all fiting together so neatly based on that conception and nothing more is its veracity nothing more no devine revelation from the Holy Ghost just its apparent lack of loop holes and seeming to have all the answers. But no devine conformation.

As a young person I used to spend all my weekends in junior high not with friends but sitting in court watching court cases, for a time I wanted to be a lawyer. Anyhow its interesting to watch lawyers as they study and learn their trade at some point along the journey most come to the point at some stage where they finally realise truth is a very, emphemeral, subjective ontological thing not easy to pinn down in the least. I think this often happens when a lawyer is trying to prosecute and prove when all of a sudden the light goes on and they realize what they had always thought about truth being solid, objective, concrete like reality isn't correct it is in infact fleeting almost impossible to pinn down and almost at times unattainable. Pilate asked the question of the Master to which he never replied the wisest of them all. "Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?"

I would not recommend basing ones faith on a scientific critique of the bona fides of a religion, as what is black and white in science has changed time and time again. I think if you did that you could end up becoming a schizophrenic, being baptised when something scientific corresponds then leaving again when it conflicts, I think one followed that you would be looking at a very mixed up confused individual. I can't recommend what Polygamy Porter is proposing in doing that.

Shirts Comment doesn't objectively prove he is an ass, that is a supposition not a fact. Shirts perhaps is a little over zealous however in my opinion he is 100% correct.

[_KerryAShirts]

Poly Port:
You really are a backassyard professor ins'tcha?

Kerry:
Hello my braying brother.............

PP:
Think about it.

Kerry:
I have....

PP:

IF you had the stone box, SCIENTISTS would be very interested in it.

Kerry:
Instead we have the book, and literary scholars are iterested in it, politicians, everyday day Joes, Porters, and jackasses, Americans, Canadians, Africans, Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, Australians, and anyone else I didn't list.

PP:

Further IF you had the magical golden plates, SCIENTISTS would fall over each other to examine them.

Kerry:
But for what? Would they be able to Prove Nephites or Lamanites WROTE THEM? that's the point, not whether scientists are interested in them. WHAT WOULD IT PROVE you lovin donkey you.

PP:
So to answer your question, If SCIENTISTS verified smiths translation,

Kerry:
THEY COULDN'T YOU BLINKIN MORON. The language was changed and is UNKNOWN - GRIN!

PP:
then would that be evidence that such a race of people existed and did write such things? Yes, I would put my garments back on,

Kerry:
THEN YOU ARE *STUPIDER THAN DUMB* because that would be for the wrong reason.

PP:
hell, I'd go buy seven of the old school one piece jesus jammie jumpsuits, one for each day of the week! I would even refrain from staining them with skid marks :)

Kerry:
How idiotic. I toldja I'd ridicule you for taking this worthless stance.

PP:

HOWEVER, didn't we already go through such an exercise back in 1967, then recently with the DNA. Neither of which proved anything positive for LDS Inc?

Kerry:
NOTHING will *PROVE* anything to everyone Port.....HELLO! McPorter!!!!!!!!!!!! Proof is subjective.

[_KerryAShirts]

Vegas Refuggee:
This comment proves that your an ass.

edit: not only an ass but an ignorant ass.

Kerry:
Is that all you got fer logic and analysis? Stay in Vegas, its the only place you could survive. Your IQ won't be able to handle anywhere else.

[_KerryAShirts]

Sono hito:
Either put up the verifyable evidence that confirms a major point within Mormon theology, or STFU!


Kerry:
While we are putting it up, READ WHAT WE HAVE, DIGEST IT, and UNDERSTAND IT, OR SHUT UP YOUR STUPID SELF.....See how fun these intellectual diatribes can be when only idiot replies like yours are allowed? Wheeeeeeeeee!

[_Mercury]

Is that all you got fer logic and analysis? Stay in Vegas, its the only place you could survive. Your IQ won't be able to handle anywhere else.

Why, would it have made a difference if I would give you a logical analysis of your "argument"?

[_KerryAShirts]

It would have been vastly more superior and interesting than your childish rantings.....I just *KNOW* you have an IQ, now its just a matter of training you to use it.........GRIN!

[_Mercury]

It would have been vastly more superior and interesting than your childish rantings.....I just *KNOW* you have an IQ, now its just a matter of training you to use it.........GRIN!

Your proposing that you would be a trainer? Are you going to start with straw man construction or character assassination for tactics against the "not so useful facts"?

[_Jersey Girl]

Vegas,

Please, would you save me the trouble of wading back through the pages of this thread and briefly summarize the issue of the stone box, what kind of proof it would supply and it's potential impact on Mormonism?

Jersey Girl

[_Mercury]

Vegas,

Please, would you save me the trouble of wading back through the pages of this thread and briefly summarize the issue of the stone box, what kind of proof it would supply and it's potential impact on Mormonism?

Jersey Girl

It would prove the existence of a stone box, which joe claimed ha dexisted and never been taken away. There is no evidence of it or the plates that supposedly were in said stone box.

It would corroborate joes unlikely story with the first actual physical proof of his tall tale.

[_Jersey Girl]

Vegas,

Please, would you save me the trouble of wading back through the pages of this thread and briefly summarize the issue of the stone box, what kind of proof it would supply and it's potential impact on Mormonism?

Jersey Girl

It would prove the existence of a stone box, which joe claimed ha dexisted and never been taken away. There is no evidence of it or the plates that supposedly were in said stone box.

It would corroborate joes unlikely story with the first actual physical proof of his tall tale.

Okay, thanks, Vegas,

And why wouldn't the very first converts or witnesses, have preserved the stone box as with the Book of Abraham papyrus that were later discovered in the museum in NYC?

Jersey Girl