Do a few lies make you a liar?

[_Scottie]

I was thinking about the thread Runtu posted about Joseph Smith lying.

I know that I have told lies in the past, as I would assume all of you have. Does that make me an untrustworthy person? I would certainly like to think not. I strive to be an honest person. Does that mean I always succeed? No.

By the same token, I'm not sure that we can simply look at the history, say, "Joseph Smith lied about these few things, therefore, he was a liar!"

Isn't everyone entitled to tell a few lies without being branded a liar?

Does the size of the lie make a difference? If someone asks you how you're doing and you say fine, even though you're not, does that constitute a lie? If you tell your wife she looks great, even though greenpeace is holding a rally on your front lawn, does that make you a liar? If I say I'm going to the office when I'm really meeting my lover, does that cross the line into liar?

[_harmony]

I think it makes a difference who the audience is.

If I'm out to lunch with my friends, and one of them asks me how I am, of course I'm going to lie and say I'm fine. No way do I want our pleasant lunch to be sidetracked into a litany of my ailments. However, if I'm out to lunch with my boss, and he asks me how I am, I'd better be absolutely honest with him; he deserves to know if I've got something going on with my health that is going to impact my ability to do my job. If I lie, I've threatened the entire district's outcome (because if I go down, I take about a million in fundraising with me).

When Joseph lied about his multiple marriages, he lied not only to Emma, the one woman on the earth who deserved to know about his extramarital activities, but also he lied to his followers, who trusted him and looked to him for leadership. They believed in the calling he claimed; that he lied about something that big indicates his ability to lie about other things, equally big. A man not trustworthy about something like that isn't trustworthy about anything.

[_cksalmon]

I was thinking about the thread Runtu posted about Joseph Smith lying.

I know that I have told lies in the past, as I would assume all of you have. Does that make me an untrustworthy person? I would certainly like to think not. I strive to be an honest person. Does that mean I always succeed? No.

By the same token, I'm not sure that we can simply look at the history, say, "Joseph Smith lied about these few things, therefore, he was a liar!"

Isn't everyone entitled to tell a few lies without being branded a liar?

Does the size of the lie make a difference? If someone asks you how you're doing and you say fine, even though you're not, does that constitute a lie? If you tell your wife she looks great, even though greenpeace is holding a rally on your front lawn, does that make you a liar? If I say I'm going to the office when I'm really meeting my lover, does that cross the line into liar?

I see where you're going, Seth, and I have some sympathy for your point about Joseph Smith.

I think one thing that might bring things into focus is to consider the subject of the lie.

If polygamy was the most important doctrine ever revealed to man, and Joseph Smith was engaging in polygamy, but didn't want those outside his inner circle to know (and especially not the non-Mormon public), the lie seems pretty significant to me.

If you tell your wife she looks great, even though greenpeace is holding a rally on your front lawn, does that make you a liar?

I don't think so--not in the same sense.

If I say I'm going to the office when I'm really meeting my lover, does that cross the line into liar?

Yes.

I'd love to be black and white on this issue, but I'm not sure if that's possible.

Is the lie to protect others or oneself? Is the lie about something relatively insignificant (like your snapshot opinion of your wife's appearance) or something monumentally significant (like denying that you're actually practicing the most important revelation given to man)?

I think the context and content of this particular lie by Joseph Smith needs to be factored into the equation.

Chris

[_Scottie]

I was thinking about the thread Runtu posted about Joseph Smith lying.

I know that I have told lies in the past, as I would assume all of you have. Does that make me an untrustworthy person? I would certainly like to think not. I strive to be an honest person. Does that mean I always succeed? No.

By the same token, I'm not sure that we can simply look at the history, say, "Joseph Smith lied about these few things, therefore, he was a liar!"

Isn't everyone entitled to tell a few lies without being branded a liar?

Does the size of the lie make a difference? If someone asks you how you're doing and you say fine, even though you're not, does that constitute a lie? If you tell your wife she looks great, even though greenpeace is holding a rally on your front lawn, does that make you a liar? If I say I'm going to the office when I'm really meeting my lover, does that cross the line into liar?

I see where you're going, Seth, and I have some sympathy for your point about Joseph Smith.

Wow...I'm flattered that you would confuse me with Seth!! This is a new high for me! :)

[_cksalmon]

I was thinking about the thread Runtu posted about Joseph Smith lying.

I know that I have told lies in the past, as I would assume all of you have. Does that make me an untrustworthy person? I would certainly like to think not. I strive to be an honest person. Does that mean I always succeed? No.

By the same token, I'm not sure that we can simply look at the history, say, "Joseph Smith lied about these few things, therefore, he was a liar!"

Isn't everyone entitled to tell a few lies without being branded a liar?

Does the size of the lie make a difference? If someone asks you how you're doing and you say fine, even though you're not, does that constitute a lie? If you tell your wife she looks great, even though greenpeace is holding a rally on your front lawn, does that make you a liar? If I say I'm going to the office when I'm really meeting my lover, does that cross the line into liar?

I see where you're going, Seth, and I have some sympathy for your point about Joseph Smith.

Wow...I'm flattered that you would confuse me with Seth!! This is a new high for me! :)

Oh, boy.

Let's add this to my having confused Ron Beron for Rob Osborne on MADB.

Note to self: "I don't know what to put here, but it should probably involve rudimentary fact-checking."

I think my point still stands, SCOTTIE!


Best.

Chris

[_Jersey Girl]

I think that some of the lies listed in the OP are people's way of sparing hurt feelings on the part of others while some of the lies display perhaps a chronic lack of character in maintaining deep deception.

I don't have a good answer to the OP, can you tell?

[_mledbetter]

I was thinking about the thread Runtu posted about Joseph Smith lying.

I know that I have told lies in the past, as I would assume all of you have. Does that make me an untrustworthy person? I would certainly like to think not. I strive to be an honest person. Does that mean I always succeed? No.

By the same token, I'm not sure that we can simply look at the history, say, "Joseph Smith lied about these few things, therefore, he was a liar!"

Isn't everyone entitled to tell a few lies without being branded a liar?

Does the size of the lie make a difference? If someone asks you how you're doing and you say fine, even though you're not, does that constitute a lie? If you tell your wife she looks great, even though greenpeace is holding a rally on your front lawn, does that make you a liar? If I say I'm going to the office when I'm really meeting my lover, does that cross the line into liar?

We're all liars. However, if Joseph Smith lied about some major foundational doctrines and sources of those doctrines, that's a major lie. The jury is still out for me on those major issues, though I tend to believe he was just a man and made some mistakes.

[_sunstoned]

Do a few lies make you a lier?

Joseph Smith didn't just tell a few lies. He lived a life of deception. He was having multiple affairs and lying to his wife about them. He also lied to the press, and to his followers. Multiple times he lied. When found out, he lied again. He lied about the Book of Abraham, about the Kinderhook plates, and about finding treasures at Salem.

[_Jersey Girl]

Do a few lies make you a lier?

Joseph Smith didn't just tell a few lies. He lived a life of deception. He was having multiple affairs and lying to his wife about them. He also lied to the press, and to his followers. Multiple times he lied. When found out, he lied again. He lied about the Book of Abraham, about the Kinderhook plates, and about finding treasures at Salem.

He lied people out of their hard earned money, their property, their extended European families, their home towns, their health (thinking malaria), their wives and their innocence.