John Dehlin's comments on FARMish apologia

[_Trevor]

No... No... The Cult needs control. John is "out of control". And while John is showing that he is indeed human, Mormon leaders will not tolerate him.

Yet somehow he has survived with his membership intact up to this point. Maybe all is not as pitch black as you like to imagine.

[_Infymus]

No... No... The Cult needs control. John is "out of control". And while John is showing that he is indeed human, Mormon leaders will not tolerate him.

Yet somehow he has survived with his membership intact up to this point. Maybe all is not as pitch black as you like to imagine.

And so is Grant Palmer's membership.

[_Trevor]

And so is Grant Palmer's membership.

And your point is?

[_Infymus]

And so is Grant Palmer's membership.

And your point is?

The point is is that as soon as he makes enough "noise" to get noticed by local leaders, they will step in.

Is it that hard to understand?

[_Trevor]

Is it that hard to understand?

And as you said, Grant Palmer still has his membership. He isn't buried in some concrete pad under a new ward building somewhere. Somehow the evil 'cult' neglected to force poisoned kool-aid down his gullet and wipe his family off of the face of the earth. Instead he was.... shudder... disfellowshipped!!!

The evil controlling 'cult' has been aware of John Dehlin for a little while now. He hasn't been threatened. There has been no 'court of love' (euphemism for cannibal feast on the marrow of apostate bones), no warning to cease and desist. Still he continues to interview notable ex-Mormons and head up Sunstone. By now you would think the Danites would have offed him for these egregious offenses. Maybe he is actually some kind of sleeper agent working for the Morg itself! I am aghast.

[_Infymus]

And as you said, Grant Palmer still has his membership. He isn't buried in some concrete pad under a new ward building somewhere. Somehow the evil 'cult' neglected to force poisoned kool-aid down his gullet and wipe his family off of the face of the earth. Instead he was.... shudder... disfellowshipped!!!

Flippant. And you think there is no significance to a Mormon when you are disfellowshipped? Mormon leaders use both disfellowshipping and excommunication to discredit and silence members. Once a member has been "silenced", it is easy to dismiss their work and keep "faithful" members from reading it.

How would you feel to be disfellowshipped? Can't speak, can't pray, can't hold office, can't do anything except pay your tithing - not to mention the black mark placed on your record forever barring you from being a bishop or greater. Nothing says scarlet letter like being disfellowshipped or excommunicated.

The evil controlling 'cult' has been aware of John Dehlin for a little while now. He hasn't been threatened. There has been no 'court of love' (euphemism for cannibal feast on the marrow of apostate bones), no warning to cease and desist. Still he continues to interview notable ex-Mormons and head up Sunstone.

For now. He is only attacking apologists, not Cult leaders. Also, how do you know any of this? Have you asked him personally? How do you know the SCMC isn't carefully watching everything he writes?

By now you would think the Danites would have offed him for these egregious offenses. Maybe he is actually some kind of sleeper agent working for the Morg itself! I am aghast.

Nobody is talking about Danites anymore, Trevor. But the Cult still uses surveillance and wire tapping.

[_Trevor]

Flippant. And you think there is no significance to a Mormon when you are disfellowshipped?

Flippant? Only because I am responding to someone who habitually (ab)uses inflammatory rhetoric. You charging me with being flippant doesn't really phase me.

I don't hold Grant's being disfellowshipped a light thing, and I doubt he would characterize his experience as you do here--'the Cult having to maintain control.' My point is that you are blowing things way out of proportion.

For now. He is only attacking apologists, not Cult leaders. Also, how do you know any of this? Have you asked him personally? How do you know the SCMC isn't carefully watching everything he writes?

I consider John a friend. I have spoken with him about these things. Of course, I have no idea what the SCMC is or isn't doing. I am not sitting here deeply fearing it, and I know John isn't either.

But the Cult still uses surveillance and wire tapping.

More a sign of their ludicrous paranoia than their fear-inspiring power, I say (and that only if it is true).

[_beastie]

The LDS church can and does change. There have been more liberal periods versus more conservative, controlling periods. I have no idea whether or not the church is currently on a trajectory of change in terms of more openness in regards to history and admission of the existence of "tough issues" (rather than just pretending people only lose faith because they're weak or sinners). I would guess a lot of that will depend upon who is the next prophet.

[_Infymus]

The LDS church can and does change. There have been more liberal periods versus more conservative, controlling periods. I have no idea whether or not the church is currently on a trajectory of change in terms of more openness in regards to history and admission of the existence of "tough issues" (rather than just pretending people only lose faith because they're weak or sinners). I would guess a lot of that will depend upon who is the next prophet.

More and more evidence that it is just an organization created by a sexual deviant, one Joseph Smith Jr., who was lying, thieving scoundrel.

Today, it is nothing more than an organization that prays on human beings to exact money, power and control.

It has never been led by a "God", it has always been led by men. Men who continue to get it wrong, men who continue to change the rules whenever the "current rules" fall out of favor.

The Mormon Cult is appalling for what it has done and continues to do to humanity.

[_Trevor]

The Mormon Cult is appalling for what it has done and continues to do to humanity.

As I said...